I can't agree with you there simply because the PMDG DC-6 sold more in it's first weekend than had ever been sold before.

Yes there are facts specific to that release but it shows that there IS A MUCH LARGER market for quality aircraft that can be tapped into in MSFS than basically any previous sim.

Edited April 29, 20224 yr by Matchstick

6 minutes ago, Matchstick said:

I can't agree with you there as the PMDG DC-6 sold more in it's first weekend than any very had ever sold.

Yes, but the dropoff is steeeeep, and it had huge first mover advantage. Just because it sold better than all previous versions together (which probably still only puts it around 10K units) doesn't mean it is going to sell 10K units every week forever.

Most simmers buy the product within a week or two and then you sell single digit or small double digit numbers of copies per month after that.

This isn't going from any internal numbers, but from talking directly with many devs in the space over the past couple of years.

Edited April 29, 20224 yr by MattNischan

Just now, MattNischan said:

Yes, but the dropoff is steeeeep, and it has first mover advantage. Just because it sold better than all previous versions together (which probably still only puts it around 10K units) doesn't mean it is going to sell 10K units every week forever.

Most simmers buy the product within a week or two and then you sell single digit or small double digit numbers of copies per month after that.

None of that alters that fact that there is an audience VASTLY larger than anything the sim market has seen in decades (or likely ever seen) that can be sold to and has demonstrated a williness to spend money on a quality plane at a good price (I'd particularly love to know the figures for the Boeing 247 sales to see if that pricing experiment was justified)

1 hour ago, DJJose said:

A free copy every 10 minutes. What about those of us who are not lucky to win a copy. What's it going to cost?

I think you will be fine with the price. The numbers that have been floating around in the beta tester channel are unlikely to create a huge revolt in the community. What's more, this airplane is unique in many ways. I believe it will be a huge success for Milviz.

Edited April 29, 20224 yr by qqwertzde

Just now, qqwertzde said:

I think you will be fine with the price. The numbers that have been floating around in the beta tester channel are unlikely to create a huge revolt in the community. What's more, this airplane is unique in many ways. I believe it will be a huge success for Milviz.

I want them to succeed and I wish them the best!

I'm not a poet, so bear with me:

I dreamed about a sim, then I woke and saw that FS9 was released, so I bought every add-on.

I woke and saw that FSX was released so I bought every add-on again.

I woke and saw that a better version of FSX, P3D 64 bit sim, was released so I bought all the add-ons all over again.

I woke and saw that a new internet based sim (MSFS 2020) was released, so I had to buy the same add-ons again.

My dream became a nightmare when I failed to pay my internet service provider.

LOL

As I stated, I ain't no poet, so please forgive me.

8 minutes ago, DJJose said:

I want them to succeed and I wish them the best!

I'm not a poet, so bear with me:

I dreamed about a sim, then I woke and saw that FS9 was released, so I bought every add-on.

I woke and saw that FSX was released so I bought every add-on again.

I woke and saw that a better version of FSX, P3D 64 bit sim, was released so I bought all the add-ons all over again.

I woke and saw that a new internet based sim (MSFS 2020) was released, so I had to buy the same add-ons again.

My dream became a nightmare when I failed to pay my internet service provider.

LOL

As I stated, I ain't no poet, so please forgive me.

Stick to being a DJ!   

In all seriousness, yes, I get it - same here!

48 minutes ago, MattNischan said:

The economics of flight sim development are a tough sell. These planes sell almost exclusively to core simmers (in other words, the expanded crowd brought in by MSFS doesn't buy them) and 5000 copies is a good number over the lifetime, with 10,000 being seen as an enormous success, for a product that takes specialty expertise and generally have long times to market (anywhere from 2-10 person years of dev time).

Yeah, the sweet spot is probably Carenado.  They appeal to the casual new crowd because they are cheapish easy to fly and look pretty. The lack of fancy functional stuff in the cockpit does not matter if you fly mainly in external view anyway.

Sadly a study level plane with an optional "easy" mode does not work because every one puts it on "full real" regardless of their personal skill levels.

Edited April 29, 20224 yr by Glenn Fitzpatrick

30 minutes ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

Sadly a study level plane with an optional "easy" mode does not work because every one puts it on "full real" regardless of their personal skill levels.

Most of the people I know with the DC-6 most definitely started off in easy mode with the AI Flight Engineer and have taken great pride in learning the skills over time to take on that role themselves.

24 minutes ago, Matchstick said:

Most of the people I know with the DC-6 most definitely started off in easy mode with the AI Flight Engineer and have taken great pride in learning the skills over time to take on that role themselves.

I've never progressed past the DC-6 "easy mode" partly because I haven't had much time to fly anything except the 310, but also because I think that's the most authentic mode for a captain of the Cloudmaster.

The 310 (as you'll see for yourself in a few days) in an experiment in making a simulation that can be comfortably enjoyed by the more casual hobbyist while providing lots of red meat in the form of deeper authenticity for the more experienced and dedicated sim pilot.  Those that choose to start simple can turn on (or off) options to select the level that's right for them.  Maybe some will start easy and progress towards realism, as in the DC6.  You'll be able to set up the options for each livery uniquely.

Out of the box, it's as simple to operate and fly as most any sim plane (except the flight dynamics are much more realistic for a twin).

It's your choice, for instance, if you want to manage the comfort index to keep your PAX happy, or just ignore it.

It'll sure be interesting to see how this concept of multiple levels is received.

1 hour ago, Dutch727 said:

  You'll be able to set up the options for each livery uniquely.
 

Just this by itself is major progress.

Good luck with the release!

I hope that some of these “ownership” / persistency systems that have been developed for the C310 will also be implemented on the PC-6 Stage 2.

2 hours ago, Dutch727 said:

It'll sure be interesting to see how this concept of multiple levels is received.

Then you can see how much of it to incorporate into the Baron.......  hint hint!

3 hours ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

Yeah, the sweet spot is probably Carenado.  They appeal to the casual new crowd because they are cheapish easy to fly and look pretty. The lack of fancy functional stuff in the cockpit does not matter if you fly mainly in external view anyway.

Sadly a study level plane with an optional "easy" mode does not work because every one puts it on "full real" regardless of their personal skill levels.

I never fly external  mode, and I enjoy flying the Mooney, and Seminole. 

2 hours ago, Andre92 said:

Good luck with the release!

I hope that some of these “ownership” / persistency systems that have been developed for the C310 will also be implemented on the PC-6 Stage 2.

The Porter is being done by a different team and I can't speak for them, but I would not expect that the ownership and persistency options developed for the 310 would appear in any aircraft whose major systems code was done before the 310.  It's just the way software development works.

8 hours ago, MattNischan said:

The economics of flight sim development are a tough sell. These planes sell almost exclusively to core simmers (in other words, the expanded crowd brought in by MSFS doesn't buy them) and 5000 copies is a good number over the lifetime, with 10,000 being seen as an enormous success, for a product that takes specialty expertise and generally have long times to market (anywhere from 2-10 person years of dev time).

At $31, that buys you basically one or two developers over the course of that time to eek out a small profit, or maybe just pay the salaries and keep the doors open.

The argument can be made that at something like $10 it should sell much better, but I don't think the market bears that.

As a concrete example, for a usual 5K units sold the NXi would be around a $120 price point just to break even and make no money at all. A smash hit at 20K units makes that break even point $30. There's a reason the market is dominated by single digit dev shops, retired folks wanting a little bit of second income, and hobbyist devs with other jobs.

One just has to look at the SDK and the math involved to appreciate developers and never ever complain about what they get paid for. They've earned it.