I mainly fly in Europe and suddenly wondered how most pilots note fuel: in lbs or kg? I still find it odd how nm (distance) and ft (altitude) still are the standard over here and not km but I've gotten used to it. I am going to buy the Fenix (waiting for PayPal) and after watching some video's it occured to me I didn't even know what unit I use in Simbrief... (it should be set to the same in the Fenix). I checked and noticed I am using kg. I do suppose that's the standard over here? Been entering block fuel into the MCDU for quite some time without even knowing if it was kg or lbs...

But anyway, this means that even though we live in a metric society the only used metric unit is kg for weight... everything else is imperial: ft, nm, kts, Or are pilots using km too nowadays? Just curious what the standard unis are nowadays for flying in Europe.

Initially, the metric system was going to be the standard in aviation, even the US was on board. But when their metrication efforts stalled and died, it meant the move in aviation was also pretty much a no-go.

https://aerosavvy.com/metric-imperial/

But yes, in Europe it should be mostly kg for weight/mass, runway lengths in meters, distances in nm, altitude in feet unless you are talking to the passengers who can better relate to height in km.

@cianpars Maybe keep politics out of it. Or you might want to check on how well Brexit is working out for the pilots in your lovely part of the world. It ain't pretty.

Edited May 22, 20224 yr by Prpn

5 minutes ago, Prpn said:

But yes, in Europe it should be mostly kg for weight/mass, runway lengths in meters, distances in nm, altitude in feet unless you are talking to the passengers who can better relate to height in km.

LOL Forgot about the runways... So were are using meters as well as feet... what a mess LOL

Temp in C and pressure in hPa as well: and it all works just fine.

I always give the passengers our alititude in ft, everyone loves cruising at "thirty five thousand feet"... 😎

I hate metric measurements. They aren't fine enough. A meter is too long, a foot is just right. A decimeter is too short. When someone tells me how tall or long something is in feet, then I can picture it. If they tell me in yards, I can't picture it. A yard is too long to be a handy reference. Same thing for a meter.

I understand a foot long hot dog at a sandwich shop. On the other hand a .3 meter long hot dog leaves me clueless as to what I would get for the money.

13 minutes ago, Fielder said:

I hate metric measurements. They aren't fine enough. A meter is too long, a foot is just right. A decimeter is too short. When someone tells me how tall or long something is in feet, then I can picture it. If they tell me in yards, I can't picture it. A yard is too long to be a handy reference. Same thing for a meter.

I understand a foot long hot dog at a sandwich shop. On the other hand a .3 meter long hot dog leaves me clueless as to what I would get for the money.

Yes, this is simply a consequence of what you're used to. If you grew up with the metric system, picturing a meter or 30cm (.3 m) would be just as easy. 

For people from metric countries, picturing 6ft is just as hard. I grew up in a metric country and moved to North America later in life - I've been here over a decade and I still can't picture yards and so forth.. and as for fractional measurements (3/16th of an inch?) forget about it!

So the fact that you hate metric is just because it's not what you're used to. Intrinsically it's all arbitrary, but metric has the advantage of being very easy to convert between units since everything is a factor of 10. But sure, use whatever you're used to, just don't mix it up or else you get a crash on Mars. 

 

16 minutes ago, Fielder said:

I hate metric measurements. They aren't fine enough. A meter is too long, a foot is just right. A decimeter is too short. When someone tells me how tall or long something is in feet, then I can picture it. If they tell me in yards, I can't picture it. A yard is too long to be a handy reference. Same thing for a meter.

I understand a foot long hot dog at a sandwich shop. On the other hand a .3 meter long hot dog leaves me clueless as to what I would get for the money.

1st world problems and all that.  Where the heck in the world do you order a 3 meter hot dog?  I'm from the UK and its foot long all day (in Subway) 🙂

Metric is more abstract and useful for science, and easy to get to grips with conversions and such, but the imperial system has an advantage of being more “organic” a foot is more or less the length of a man’s foot,  a yard roughly the length of an arm, while a meter is a derivative of the circumference of the earth, which is less relatable (other than it’s pretty close to a yard). The Celsius temperature scale scales 0-100 as between the freezing and boiling states of water, but Fahrenheit, probably accidentally, scales really well to human weather tolerance (I.e. 0 is horribly cold and 100 is horribly hot to be out in). 

sure, we tend to like what we grew up with and understand well,  but there’s nothing horrible about imperial measurements for daily general use, unless of course, it’s something you aren’t used to.

but aviation uses one standard for distances and speeds for worldwide common use, as well as uses English as the official language.  Weights are not directly relevant to Atc or cooperation, so tend to follow the standards of where the airline operator is based.  

40 minutes ago, Fielder said:

I hate metric measurements. They aren't fine enough. A meter is too long, a foot is just right. A decimeter is too short. When someone tells me how tall or long something is in feet, then I can picture it. If they tell me in yards, I can't picture it. A yard is too long to be a handy reference. Same thing for a meter.

I understand a foot long hot dog at a sandwich shop. On the other hand a .3 meter long hot dog leaves me clueless as to what I would get for the money.

What kind of imbecile measures the length of their food? It's the weight that counts. 😛

5 minutes ago, ShawnG said:

sure, we tend to like what we grew up with and understand well,  but there’s nothing horrible about imperial measurements for daily general use, unless of course, it’s something you aren’t used to.

Imperial measurements are devoid of all logic. The problem is not the length of the individual unit, it is that imperial units are not divided by 10.

They need to die. DIE. DIEEEEEEEE! 😶

But now to the original question: Units for fuel in Europe? Metric. For all operators EXCEPT the ones from the U.K.

Edited May 22, 20224 yr by Farlis

5 minutes ago, Farlis said:

Imperial measurements are devoid of all logic. The problem is not the length of the individual unit, it is that imperial units are not divided by 10.

They need to die. DIE. DIEEEEEEEE!

Well, some people are capable of doing more than just rudimentary math… 😄

 

you can have whatever you like in your locale, but I’m to old to adjust my spatial understanding at this point, so keep it over there!

also dividing by ten is less intuitive than halving things for quick and dirty use.  Halves, quarters eighths, and sixteenths.  Has applications in music and binary as well.  Different mode of thinking.

Edited May 22, 20224 yr by ShawnG

I never said imperial is horrible.

Americans (and people from the UK, for some units) find imperial organic, the rest of the world does not. Celsius for example is perfectly organic to people who grew up in Celsius based countries. Anyway, I've had this discussion many times with my American colleagues and I know that people in the US find it hard to believe that metric is as intuitive and organic, and most just refuse to believe it. But whatever, it's not a big deal, use whatever you're happy with. 

I have nothing against imperial units, I use them every day now that I live here.

 

Guy!  I hope you all notice some missing posts!   More than that will happen if any more politics or disdain of any government/policies are discussed.

The confusion is not just in aviation. I spent 28 years in the Infantry, and we used a mish mash of imperial and the metric system. If we went for a run, it was a 5 mile run. If we went for a ruck march (long a$$ hike) it was a 15 kilometer movement. When we put fuel in vehicles it was by the gallon, when we went to the firing range, the distances were in meters. In combat, enemy contact was measured in meters as well..."enemy contact front...250 meters!". When discussing navigation routes with elevation changes, it was in feet. After awhile, you get used to either system. You just have to use them 🙂 

7 hours ago, FlyingGoose said:

But sure, use whatever you're used to, just don't mix it up or else you get a crash on Mars.

Or a Gimli Glider...