Sting S4 from FSReborn is released in the MSFS marketplace

[JYW]

2 minutes ago, simbol said:

I know I was joking, I have a funny sense of humor. 😂

Claro y me tambien! Todo bien  (I've been learning Spanish very very part time for a year or so, but not making great progress 😄     I teach at a primary school in the UK where the kids learn Spanish.... most are better than me!

[simbol]

8 hours ago, JYW said:

100% agree on this one.  This is actually the sole reason that, (if the product weren't encrypted by Marketplace) I would have wanted to access the sound files. To remove that awful sound.  In Auto prop mode in the real aircraft, that lever does not move (on it's own).  The prop governor is digital and the computer simply adjusts prop pitch to maintain RPM - without needing to move the manual level. 

@simbol ; in the Sound.xml file, that sound is triggered by WwiseEvent="lever_propeller".

Please set this sound's Wwise flag to false!  I don't think this one needs an options switch in the EFB.  That prop sound is default (used in the NX Cub and others), and I'm 99% sure the real Sting S4's have no sound when the prop lever is moved.    100% no sound when the prop pitch is moved by the governor computer, in auto mode.

Cheers.

 

17 hours ago, lupedelupe said:

The ratchet sound of the pitch lever ... realistic I'm sure, but a little annoying when on Auto mode.

Hello both, I found a way to silence the sound of the propeller lever moving when the prop is set on auto.

I want to include some other sounds improvements before pushing the update, I will keep everyone updated when this get's live via MP.

Best,
R.

[JYW]

1 minute ago, simbol said:

Hello both, I found a way to silence the sound of the propeller lever moving when the prop is set on auto.

Awesome news.  👍

[lupedelupe]

Thanks for your ongoing attention to the product, always appreciated by the community.

I was intrigued by your comparison of the S4 flight characteristics compared to the Asobo C152. Just did a comparison flight (warm, 10-or-so knots of wind, fairly flat terrain but some ground turbulence), same weather (temp, wind etc). The C152 definitely behaved more like one would expect: the bounciness was nowhere near as abrupt as it is in your S4 (of course the C152 weighs a little more). 

[pemigris]

6 hours ago, lupedelupe said:

Thanks for your ongoing attention to the product, always appreciated by the community.

I was intrigued by your comparison of the S4 flight characteristics compared to the Asobo C152. Just did a comparison flight (warm, 10-or-so knots of wind, fairly flat terrain but some ground turbulence), same weather (temp, wind etc). The C152 definitely behaved more like one would expect: the bounciness was nowhere near as abrupt as it is in your S4 (of course the C152 weighs a little more). 

Translated: Sting does not behave like you would expect. 

Cross check this video from 5:30 on. There is the reason:

 

[simbol]

So basically S4 is doing what it should.. Hehe.

S.

[Glenn Fitzpatrick]

Warriors and C152's (especially the 40 degree flap variants) are basically house bricks with wings that defy common sense by actually flying.

In contrast, this Sting in game is very light and spritely and somewhat hard to keep the speed down without accidently over speeding the flaps.

This may well be realistic, i have the opportunity to fly one in a few weeks, weather permitting, so i guess I will find out.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Glenn Fitzpatrick

[lupedelupe]

Let me explain. I only compared the S4 to the C152 because I seem to recall simbol comparing the flight behaviour of his creation to that of the C152. I fully understand and appreciate the counter argument.

The Asobo ultralight and light offerings would probably be a better comparison, but I have no idea if the prop-wash (and other) effects have been applied to them or not.

I guess the simple point I am trying to make is: I am in the camp that thinks the in-flight movement is a little too abrupt. I think most of us have flown in light and ultralight aircraft in relatively gentle conditions, and I've never experienced a flight where movements were that swift and abrupt (movement yes, but a slightly more gradual pressing into the seat/belts than is perceived in the virtual S4). My opinion means nothing, but there are quite a few others who echo this sentiment. 

I don't know the first thing about authoring a plane in MSFS, and believe that the interpretation is as accurate as simbol can get it. 

@Glenn Fitzpatrick Let us know how it goes. 

 

[simbol]

1 hour ago, lupedelupe said:

Let me explain. I only compared the S4 to the C152 because I seem to recall simbol comparing the flight behaviour of his creation to that of the C152. I fully understand and appreciate the counter argument.

The Asobo ultralight and light offerings would probably be a better comparison, but I have no idea if the prop-wash (and other) effects have been applied to them or not.

I guess the simple point I am trying to make is: I am in the camp that thinks the in-flight movement is a little too abrupt. I think most of us have flown in light and ultralight aircraft in relatively gentle conditions, and I've never experienced a flight where movements were that swift and abrupt (movement yes, but a slightly more gradual pressing into the seat/belts than is perceived in the virtual S4). My opinion means nothing, but there are quite a few others who echo this sentiment. 

I don't know the first thing about authoring a plane in MSFS, and believe that the interpretation is as accurate as simbol can get it. 

@Glenn Fitzpatrick Let us know how it goes. 

 

In my view, MSFS convection depiction is not right. I have been fighting this at MSFS for a while (since SU9 beta), this is because I saw the change SU9 had on the Sting S4, as you must appreciate I have been developing S4 for a long time, I started at SU4.. then SU5 came, etc, etc. I have seen system progressive changes for a long time and how each one impacted the flight model from a developer perspective but also my Sting S4 beta testers.

When SU9 came out, I suddenly felt all these shakes, and raise the questions.. I was told by many in MSFS forums "this is how is supposed to be", despite that I have been in IRL inside many Jabiru J170 (an ultralight_ between EGKR and EGKA, specially during summer time (who can fly in the UK other time? it is always IMC!!), in my experience, although you find turbulence, it is not "constant jerking" left right, etc. it is quiet pleasant since you find plenty of smooth atmosphere here in the UK. 

To me, the convection depiction in MSFS is too analogue and fake, it doesn't take in consideration the airplane inertia and other factors, for example, pulls you to the left 5 deg and immediately to the right 8 deg, this is pretty unrealistic, airplanes move in the atmosphere with the turbulence, you are in the turbulence.. not the other way around, you would not jerk left right like that so quick... it is difficult to describe, you move left, less left.. down.. up.. then it eases.. then again.. until you are out of the thermal, we are talking here about convection.. not heavy turbulence.

What I would like people to understand, this is not a fault in Sting S4 flight model, the flight model is as close as I can get it in MSFS, what you guys are experiencing is MSFS injecting constant abrupt turbulence in the atmosphere due to the ground being "HOT", this is called convection, it does exist in IRL, but in my view this convection simulation needs tweaking, it is too strong even at high altitude, it is too analogue,  it fails to react properly to snow (when there is snow, you don;t get convection), it fails to reach to cold wind / cold fronts, I could go on..

Normally on an Ultralight, the faster you go, these shakes easy because you are moving in the atmosphere / air quicker and that inertia cancels these turbulence feelings due to convection, unless  of course you hit a pocket of no air or a different type of turbulence, in which case, you better hold tight! it is an Ultralight after all.

Conclusion?

We need Microsoft adjusting this behaviour, I did many tests and the only way for me to avoid this would be to increase the S4 weight closer to the VL3 or Cessna.. so I ask you, does that makes sense? do you want an Sting S4 with a Cessna weight or VL3 weight? I think not! :) mind due, there were people even here on Vatsim complaining about this turbulence on other small airplanes, specially under VR because it was making then sick.. so this is not an S4 issue.. it is a MSFS issue..

R.

[lupedelupe]

Thanks @simbol. Good explanation. 👍

[scotchegg]

5 hours ago, simbol said:

it doesn't take in consideration the airplane inertia

That’ll be it! I was wondering why the turbulence felt so immediate. Is inertia still totally absent in MSFS?

[simbol]

41 minutes ago, scotchegg said:

That’ll be it! I was wondering why the turbulence felt so immediate. Is inertia still totally absent in MSFS?

Not sure.. I would imagine.. but maybe it is not considered for this turbulence effect, I am asking Asobo again via their forums, if there is anything I can add to my flight model (just being open minded) to reduce this inpact, perhaps there is a secret parameter undocumented, or something.. who knows.. I suspect no, but I don't lose anything for asking.

R.

[Glenn Fitzpatrick]

It does seems a bit flighty at times,  lack of inertia in the sim makes sense.  I am going to experiment with adding weight and fuel see how that changes things.

Really liking this fun aircraft, great value.

[JYW]

Yep, there's a long thread on the MSFS forum where Simbol, myself (son's account!) and a host of others are trying to describe that the issue is not that CFD and convection simulation shouldn't be there - but that it's been depcited in a way that is very exagerated by Asobo, and that lacks any inertia.    Some are arguing the current convection model (which is what is causing the abrupt jerking in the Sting; regardless of wind setting) is perfect!   I don't think those guys have been in a real ULA / LSA.  

To see how poorly Asobo have introduced this CFD convection in MSFS, set sim time to about 18:00 (local) in the Sting. you'll have that awful jerking.    Now come out and set up the same flight in the Sting but at 20:15 local.  All the jerking has gone.

To Asobo:    

- before 20:00 = the ground across the whole world is very hot and will convect vertically, at an almost constant rate, chucking your light plane around as though it's (i) static, and (ii) weighs the same as a single grain of rice.

- after 20:00 = the ground across the whole world immediately cools and there's no convection. and only clear air turbulance and normal gusting will move your plane at all.

There's very little graduation / roll-off of the effect (if any).

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by JYW

[TurboKen]

Well one less S4 flying around. This happened after work yesterday a 1/2 mile away from me.

https://www.koin.com/local/washington-county/lanes-blocked-after-emergency-airplane-landing-crash-in-hillsboro-oregon/