There is nothing more wonderful for a company that its consumers test its product, without it having been finished. In addition, the company does not pay them, quite the opposite: it charges them.

Success will come when the company also manages to make users happily affirm that they don't care, that they do it because it is a pleasure for them.

The company just has to call it BETA, or FIX...

The number of tests and professionals that the company will save will be enormous.

Users will happily have CTD, but will happily wait.

You just a little bit right , have to say that but with the CTD i personally had a long, long time none..

cheers 😉

Sort of true, depending on the business who is doing the beta.

In reality though, may users ask us to create public betas so that they can have input in to the design and development process and be part of the product. I have always thought that a good thing and encouraged it with my publisher hat on.

In practice, the feedback from public betas is limited at best (many just want a free copy) and professional QA is a whole different process, using very rigid parameters, specialist monitoring and performance software and a whole host of tools in a scientific process that is long and complicated.

My personal view has to always been to work internal QA and public beta hand in hand and to take the value from both. I have always appreciated public feedback and it does drive products. This is why I say "depending on the business". If the publisher is genuinely interested in public feedback and follow through with changes and adopt feedback it is good for everyone.

When handled properly I have always thought of it more as relationship building between developer and customer which is so important. If our customers spot bugs so much the better as we are all only human.

So yes, I share the cynicism (having seen it abused in some publishers), but there is also a positive side. It is all down to how it is managed and handled and the level of trust between dev and customer.

As developers we genuinely want to hear you, from every way we can make that happen. Its a good tool for that.

Jane

Every decent software needs beta testers to help check it out. People have been asking for beta testing for MSFS, and thank goodness, we have that now. It is done by users volunteering , and if you don't like beta testing, don't volunteer...

Edited July 11, 20223 yr by Bobsk8

4 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Every decent software needs beta testers to help check it out. People have been asking for beta testing for MSFS, and thank goodness, we have that now. It is done by users volunteering , and if you don't like beta testing, don't volunteer...

just dont get me started on focus groups Bob,

Had a focus group at work once and everyone of them said they loved the game - which came across as not entirely truthful. Turned out one of the group had started a false rumour that everyone who liked it and said so would get a free lunch of better quality than those who found issues!

It is a gift they've allowed us to participate in their development and that we've had access for 2 years now.  Thank you Asobo/MS I am in complete agreement with the OP!!!

OH wait it was a snarky tongue in cheek complaint post with no point or value.  I should have read the whole thing... 😞  

The other option would be to hold off release until the software was complete and bug free by which time it would probably also be obsolete

or

release it with a very aggressive development cycle that is open to the public to participate in if they so choose.  

I also hate to break the news but you still need the professional developers many of whom are also beta testers.  

So what do you propose?  Or just fancied a bit of a vent against MS and Asobo?  

Joe Average thinks: Beta = free word not allowed

Then his PC blows up.

Then Joe Average makes a sad face and cries. 

Edited July 11, 20223 yr by Ricardo41

Yawn.

As things continue to get better and better for MSFS, you can expect to see more and more posts like this from people suffering from acute posterior pain as their preferred sims get less and less of the spotlight.

 

To humor the post, I will say I love betas! I take it as an early access lok at what is to come. Reporting an issue is a small price to pay for that privilege lol. No one is forced to report anything when they join the beta anyway. Betas are kinda necessary in our current landscape. There are infinite pc configurations out there without even getting into possible conflicting add-ons or software so open betas are an efficient way to get information from as many sources as possible.

Edited July 11, 20223 yr by Krakin

3 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

Joe Average thinks: Beta = free word not allowed

Then his PC blows up.

The Joe Average makes a sad face and cries. 

Agreed 🙂

Two days into this beta I have several addons not working, but I really like being part of the process.  In all of the MSFS betas I have been in, many of the initial bugs are fixed pretty quickly. Most addon developers get fixes out pretty quick too.

So far in this beta DX12 has worked well for me. Lower level clouds have noticeable improvements too.

Just now, psolk said:

The other option would be to hold off release until the software was complete and bug free by which time it would probably also be obsolete

Or the project would run out of money. Before any commercial software project is released, the development is nothing but expenses for the company and zero income. How many companies would OK a project with a business plan that says "We'll spend many years and and a largely unknown amount of manpower developing a very complex flight simulator until it is perfectly polished and totally free of bugs. And only then will we release it and start earning money, provided it is a success." I don't know how many executives would say "Sounds great. Do it."

With a product like MSFS it makes sense to release it when it is "Good Enough" - not feature complete and have some bugs, but a lot of people will enjoy it nevertheless, and the income it generates will fund further development and new features over the years.

2 minutes ago, JacquesBrel said:

Or the project would run out of money. Before any commercial software project is released, the development is nothing but expenses for the company and zero income. How many companies would OK a project with a business plan that says "We'll spend many years and and a largely unknown amount of manpower developing a very complex flight simulator until it is perfectly polished and totally free of bugs. And only then will we release it and start earning money, provided it is a success." I don't know how many executives would say "Sounds great. Do it."

With a product like MSFS it makes sense to release it when it is "Good Enough" - not feature complete and have some bugs, but a lot of people will enjoy it nevertheless, and the income it generates will fund further development and new features over the years.

Feature complete and feature parity are two terms that make me cringe!!!  We won't end of life or end of sale one product until we have feature parity with the new product so we can release the new product and it still take 3 years to get to parity with the old...  Oy, I live in this world everyday LOL.  

1 minute ago, Krakin said:

as their preferred sims

I so like being a flight simmer rather than a particular sim word not allowed.

XP12 will release soon and it will no doubt do some things better than MSFS.  MSFS will no doubt do plenty better than XP12.  It's rather sad some simmers feel the need to discount the good in another sim, and sadder still they have to criticise that sim or its users.

Enjoy it all 🙂

1 hour ago, abranpuko said:

There is nothing more wonderful for a company that its consumers test its product, without it having been finished. In addition, the company does not pay them, quite the opposite: it charges them.

Success will come when the company also manages to make users happily affirm that they don't care, that they do it because it is a pleasure for them.

The company just has to call it BETA, or FIX...

The number of tests and professionals that the company will save will be enormous.

Users will happily have CTD, but will happily wait.

They have a name for that......O yea, it's called "Agile Development". That part in the sprint, sprint review, where you demo to the customer and allow them to test it. You collect the feedback and either push forward or revisit the drawing board for grooming. See, I still have my product manager/owner skills lol.

1 hour ago, abranpuko said:

There is nothing more wonderful for a company that its consumers test its product, without it having been finished. In addition, the company does not pay them, quite the opposite: it charges them.

Success will come when the company also manages to make users happily affirm that they don't care, that they do it because it is a pleasure for them.

The company just has to call it BETA, or FIX...

The number of tests and professionals that the company will save will be enormous.

Users will happily have CTD, but will happily wait.

They forced you to take part in the beta???