1 hour ago, Matchstick said:

I'd be rather surprised if the Maddog has sold well outside of the limited number of very hardcore simmers.

Don't forget that the maddog was released pretty much when the only other "in depth level" aircraft was the BAE 146 and the CRJ I think.  Based on forum activity and other anecdotal chatter, it seemed like it did way better than I ever would have expected.  Obviously a fraction of the sales fenix/pmdg 737 got.  Either way I still think the number is higher than the number of XP12 buyers.  XP12 market is not only hardcore buyers also.  But also hardcore buyers who also still love XP11.  My opinion anyway.  

48 minutes ago, micstatic said:

Don't forget that the maddog was released pretty much when the only other "in depth level" aircraft was the BAE 146 and the CRJ I think.  Based on forum activity and other anecdotal chatter, it seemed like it did way better than I ever would have expected.  Obviously a fraction of the sales fenix/pmdg 737 got.  Either way I still think the number is higher than the number of XP12 buyers.  XP12 market is not only hardcore buyers also.  But also hardcore buyers who also still love XP11.  My opinion anyway

You might be right, absent any actual numbers from Leonardo and LR it's going to be speculation either way, though for something that was supposed to be so highly anticipated the seeming lack of impact for the Maddog suggest the community overall wasn't wowed.

29 minutes ago, Matchstick said:

You might be right, absent any actual numbers from Leonardo and LR it's going to be speculation either way, though for something that was supposed to be so highly anticipated the seeming lack of impact for the Maddog suggest the community overall wasn't wowed.

Nobody's even talking about the Maddog anymore. It's hard to find anything that points to a success for it in MSFS generally IMHO.

The Rotate Maddog has been on the market for many years with a (deservedly) very good reputation, its sales might even be better than the Leonardos, at least now. Seeing how nobody talks about it and it not being on the marketplace, I really can't imagine they are having particularly good sales.

9 minutes ago, rka said:

Nobody's even talking about the Maddog anymore. It's hard to find anything that points to a success for it in MSFS generally IMHO.

Success is probably relative.  Compared to the Fenix or PMDG it’s probably underwhelming.  However, the amount of traffic on the Leonardo forum for the msfs version is more than P3D v.5, P3D v.4 and FSX combined, and this only what, a year later.

15 minutes ago, Gilandred said:

Success is probably relative.  Compared to the Fenix or PMDG it’s probably underwhelming.  However, the amount of traffic on the Leonardo forum for the msfs version is more than P3D v.5, P3D v.4 and FSX combined, and this only what, a year later.

Oh, okay. Then it's probably done better than the Rotate, I guess.

1 hour ago, Matchstick said:

You might be right, absent any actual numbers from Leonardo and LR it's going to be speculation either way, though for something that was supposed to be so highly anticipated the seeming lack of impact for the Maddog suggest the community overall wasn't wowed.

The community thought it was overpriced.  IE still had the old pricing model of addons.  They also reacted negatively that the textures appeared to be a straight port.  The expectation was that they would have updated.  Which they still may do.  I don't know.  Finally some didn't like the sounds.  

1 hour ago, rka said:

Nobody's even talking about the Maddog anymore. It's hard to find anything that points to a success for it in MSFS generally IMHO.

The Rotate Maddog has been on the market for many years with a (deservedly) very good reputation, its sales might even be better than the Leonardos, at least now. Seeing how nobody talks about it and it not being on the marketplace, I really can't imagine they are having particularly good sales.

agree.  Maddog buzz has worn off.  but in fairness it seems like the newer pilots want to fly in service with real airline planes right now.  Or the majority do.  So that's something to consider.  

 

Regarding the Rotate.  I would strongly disagree that it ever sold anywhere near the maddog.  But that's neither here nor there.  

5 hours ago, StAgre said:

For the casual tubeliner flier I think the PMDG will feel like a more 'polished' simulation of the 737, though according to some the Zibo hand-flies better. Overall, I think non-real-world-pilots would probably prefer the PMDG all else being equal.

I have hand flown the Zibo -800 in Xplane 11 quite a lot, and the PMDG -800 in MSFS for about 4 hours. 

A lot of this is circuits and bumps at my local airport (in both sims). 

I would say there is nothing between them.  They both hand-fly really well if you are proficient with trimming them up quickly in relation to airspeed and thrust settings. 
It is easy to get them both down in the touchdown zone and on the centreline every time in mild conditions, as it should be.

I know it is only natural, but I don't like comparing one against the other anyway, and it is a fairly useless exercise, especially as one is free.  Both are decent sims, and both are really good renditions of the aircraft.

As for PMDG sales, I hope they make money on a successful product - that is the way it is supposed to be.  The tweaks, improvements, and EFB will come.

And excellent marketing strategy on the -600 at the low price - I was sucked in.  When I discovered how good it was, I ended up buying the -800, and the -700 when it was on sale.
I have never flown a -900 in sim, so I may even go for that if the price was right.  I would find it kind of interesting.

They are both similar (Zibo and PMDG), but the Zibo being free was an incredible bargain. The Zibo was in the top 3 of best ever FREE planes released on any sim probably. 

1 hour ago, micstatic said:

The community thought it was overpriced.  IE still had the old pricing model of addons.  They also reacted negatively that the textures appeared to be a straight port.  The expectation was that they would have updated.  Which they still may do.  I don't know.  Finally some didn't like the sounds.  

agree.  Maddog buzz has worn off.  but in fairness it seems like the newer pilots want to fly in service with real airline planes right now.  Or the majority do.  So that's something to consider. 

True to a point.

The Maddog 'failed' because:

1. I don't remember nearly as much PR and buzz generated by the developer around the Maddog as other developers did for theirs in the run up to release.

2. Numerous elements that were obviously ported from the product on another sim, not finished to the new 'MSFS' standard *and* made available with a very high price tag.

The flaws identified in reviews post-release killed a lot of interest in it.

I don't think there's an issue with airliners not in service. Sure, they won't sell as much volume as ubiquitous contemporary narrow bodies such as A320 or 737. Yet, JustFlight's BAe 146 proves that a high quality and well priced airliner will do well regardress if it's in service in the real world or not. There's still plenty of interest in a lot of aircraft from yesteryear if done properly.

IMO, what really helped the PMDG 737 sell so well was a lack of credible Boeing competition, the product (and reference to PMDG's reputation as a high quality developer) being hyped by many different sources for nearly 18 months and the fact the 737 is so easily identifiable to even the most casual and non-flight simmers.

@F737MAX

I agree with all this.  One thing I'll say about Leonardo is they always seem to be continuously finetuning their products and updating accordingly.  Most of the time for free.  One would hope they continue that on this plane.  I've always loved it, but in MSFS not as much as I did in P3D.  

First of all I have always looked at PMDG the standard for simming.  I wish the best in their sales  With FSX I had the whole line of PMDG 737, 747and 777. Their  planes are superior to any other developer.  They always make sure all the dots are there from A to Z.

I bought the Maddog and very dissappointed.  The sound quality just totally suicks, its like you are in a funeral home Yes, I still fly it.

I luv the PMDG 600 and 800 which I have bought, and extremely satisfied.

Concluding I wish all the best to PMDG.

Lets do a quick calc based on the most downloaded Maddog livery just as someone did a couple pages ago for the PMDG...

MJV5757s Northwest livery was downloaded 2127 times.

Simmarket shows the Maddog priced at 90 EUR incl. tax, equals 72€ per copy for simmarket and Leonardo.

72 EUR net per copy * 2127 = 153'100 EUR -> MD82

 

Same calc for the Transavia livery for the B73W:

56 USD net per copy * 13268 = 743'000 USD -> B737

B736: 28 USD net * 2187 = 61'200 USD -> B736

B738: 56 USD net * 6532 = 365'800 USD -> B738

 

Fenix A320: 40 GBP net (46 EUR/USD net) * 12250 = 563'500 EUR/USD

 

Leonardo 153'100 EUR/USD

PMDG to date 1'170'000 EUR/USD

Fenix 563'500 EUR/USD

 

Real revenue is probably about double (Maddog and B736 due to just a few r/w operators) or triple that (B737, B738, A320 all due to many r/w airlines flying those), who knows...

 

Just a very rough (and probably very (very) odd) estimate but giving a feel for sales though...

As of 9/12 2022 Leonardo is still standing on the top 10 seller list on Simmarket after being released in Late April, only behind the likes of FS Realsistic, Fsuipc, A pilots life, Rex Weather, Rex accuseasons and a few  Airport sceneries I would think they are holding up pretty good at the moment.

Edited September 12, 20223 yr by jbdbow1970

3 minutes ago, jbdbow1970 said:

As of 9/12 2022 Leonardo is still standing on the top 10 seller list on Simmarket after being released in Late April, only behind the likes of FS Realsistic, Fsuipc, A pilots life, Rex Weather, Rex accuseasons and a few  Airport sceneries I would think they are holding up pretty good at the moment.

That would be a fair comparison if Fenix and PMDG sold on simmarket too, but they don't do so 😉

5 minutes ago, Konterhalbe said:

That would be a fair comparison if Fenix and PMDG sold on simmarket too, but they don't do so 😉

Of coarse those products would sell more on SM than the Maddog if they were sold there they are A320's and B737''s not MD-80's that don't really fly any more its no comparison but lets not act like Leonard fell of a cliff here 

Edited September 12, 20223 yr by jbdbow1970