1 hour ago, Bob Scott said:

based on the release of Bruce Artwick's Flight Simulator under the Sub Logic label in Dec 1979

Hence why we have BGL files.

Bruce’s Graphical Language. 😁

11 hours ago, simfan1983 said:

 I would be very surprised if the MSFS franchise is making money, especially given the development costs that they have spent and still need to spend and all the streaming costs.

I see 'the streaming costs' mentioned a lot but I think most people don't understand how small those costs actually are. As shown by the google maps injector for MSFS, the application itself is doing most of the legwork - the streaming feed is literally just images from satellite maps. No different than just going to Bing Maps and panning around a bunch (and probably using less bandwidth than doing that would require - the plane is moving extremely slowly compared to how quickly you can hop around maps with a mouse).

More importantly, as proven by the map injector, this cost is likely not being borne by Asobo - you can just switch the server domain to Google, or Apple, or Mapbox, or any other provider and the game works exactly the same way. A few thousand people playing a flight simulator is a blip on the radar to the servers that provide maps to literally hundreds of millions of phones around the world.

Anyway, sorry for the tangent. But this idea that Asobo is spending 'millions' on streaming per month is ludicrous - if the streaming costs were so prohibitively expensive they would pass it on the consumer. They aren't, so they clearly aren't that expensive.

Edited November 12, 20223 yr by StAgre

As the OP for this thread my original thought was that P3D is a direct descendent/clone of FSX and all the versions of MSFS that preceded it and hence P3D users do have reason to celebrate 40 years of flight simming (or whatever the actual number is).  And of course LM did keep the flame alive with the continued development of the flight simming genre in the form of P3D well after Microsoft had abandoned it.

Bruce

10 hours ago, StAgre said:

I think most people don't understand how small those costs actually are

Given your inside knowledge, can you share how much MS is paying for the streaming including licensing and maintenance of the servers please?

9 hours ago, brucewtb said:

As the OP for this thread my original thought was that P3D is a direct descendent/clone of FSX and all the versions of MSFS that preceded it and hence P3D users do have reason to celebrate 40 years of flight simming (or whatever the actual number is).

As a confirmed P3D pilot I have to agree.  I can't recall the first version of MSFS I started on but it was a long time ago.

With P3D and having all the Orbx scenery available for it why would I ever give it up?  It keeps me alive since I'm more or less housebound now.  Let's celebrate it!

Noel 

Edited November 12, 20223 yr by birdguy

2 hours ago, simfan1983 said:

Given your inside knowledge, can you share how much MS is paying for the streaming including licensing and maintenance of the servers please?

MS owns the Azure distributed server network.  It's a sunk cost, with a massive excess of network and storage capacity designed to support many projects both current, future, and yet to be conceived.  It's somewhat pointless to try and separate out the cost of a minor project that rides on the rails built for and used by real bill-paying customers. 

As an analogy, if you pay $75 every month for an internet connection and decide to stream a free 1GB movie on YouTube, how much do you consider that 1GB bandwidth cost you, given that you already pay for the connection for other things you actually need--VOIP phone, e-mail and web access to work from home, etc??

4 minutes ago, Bob Scott said:

It's a sunk cost

That's not how it works in large corporations with activity based costing models in my experience.

3 minutes ago, simfan1983 said:

That's not how it works in large corporations with activity based costing models in my experience.

Sunk cost is not right term here but still he's right. They likely pay something but not much, and if it were more we'd have to pay it.

On 11/11/2022 at 7:45 AM, simfan1983 said:

I would be very surprised if the MSFS franchise is making money

I agree.  Even if their streaming costs are low, it is entirely plausible that their business model is such that in the early years they don't make much money, and may even lose money, as they develop their product.  They're banking on MSFS becoming the new standard flightsim, in effect replacing FSX and P3D, and making lots of money off the royalties they get from payware developers.  This is why they have the built-in marketplace.

We'll see what happens over the next few years.  If the developers finally fix all the problems and bugs, and add important features, then perhaps it will replace P3D.  So far, I'm not impressed with the progress.

I have little faith that these guys will still be around in 5 years, but I could be wrong.

Dave

Edited November 12, 20223 yr by dave2013

Just now, dave2013 said:

So far, I'm not impressed with the progress.

It's really difficult to know how many people have actually paid for a copy because all they release is marketing guff. Live Steam numbers have been very flat for many months at about 5k, which is atrocious, but I guess Steam is a small minority. Given how much it costs to maintain servers - and the constant issues, I would be asking some serious questions around now about whether MSFS has a future financially, but then I'm a corporate accountant by training with a good memory for how MS operate.

You’re obviously both correct. It’s all built on such shaky ground that yesterday they felt forced to give away @250usd worth of freebies to everyone who owns the game.😆

Will it replace P3D and FSX? That’s a toughie…..

 

53 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

You’re obviously both correct. It’s all built on such shaky ground that yesterday they felt forced to give away @250usd worth of freebies to everyone who owns the game.😆

Will it replace P3D and FSX? That’s a toughie…..

MSFS has already replaced P3D and XP for many people, that wasn't the issue, the question is the financial viability of the franchise, especially given MS's history.

The A310 for XP is £70. If you are willing to pay £140 for the rest of what they added yesterday you're definitely the customers they want! The Spruce Goose looks like something from FSX and Kai Tak is kinda freeware looking, don't know about helicopters - are any of them study level? To be honest it's about time they had a decent default aircraft for people to fly - the 310 is brilliant so maybe that is a good sign for the future.

1 hour ago, simfan1983 said:

The A310 for XP is £70. If you are willing to pay £140 for the rest of what they added yesterday you're definitely the customers they want! The Spruce Goose looks like something from FSX and Kai Tak is kinda freeware looking, don't know about helicopters - are any of them study level? To be honest it's about time they had a decent default aircraft for people to fly - the 310 is brilliant so maybe that is a good sign for the future.

So…..no actual argument. Just snide remarks?

What a pity….

I didn't realize it was 40 year anniversary but to be honest this is the anniversary of Microsoft purchasing Flight Simulator from Bruce Artwick of SubLogic, The original release was back in 1979 so to me that is the anniversary of this franchise, as that was when it all began

On 11/12/2022 at 11:54 AM, simfan1983 said:

MSFS has already replaced P3D and XP for many people

And FSX replaced FS2004 for many people and P3D replaced FSX for many people.  And so it goes.  But there are still many people still flying FS2004 and FSX and P3D.  

Go visit the Flightsim.com library someday and check all the new downloads for these old simulators that are still popular with many simmers.  New ones appear every day. A dozen downloads at least for FS2004 for this month alone so far.  And I imagine the same is true in the AVSIM library.

The latest and greatest doesn't kill off the old ones.  They are still around and still being used.

I am sticking with P3D and have no plans at all to move up to MSFS.  That doesn't make me a second-class flight simmer.

Noel