6 hours ago, Daube said:

To get back on topic about the performance of XP12, does anybody know if the plugin "3JFPS" still works in XP12 ? From my understanding it's not fully compatible anymore and might create issues (there's even a popup displayed to warn the users...)?

I have experienced this with the previous XP12 version, where that plugin was causing a complete LOD and texture reload of nearby objects every second or so 😕 A bit sad, this addon used to give me excellent results back in XP11. Anybody knows an alternative for XP12 ?

This one?

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/84452-3jfps12-fps-control-for-x-plane12/

 

I use my own script that adjusts "sim/private/controls/reno/LOD_bias_rat" (same principle as 3jFPS12) and see zero flickering or other ill effects in XP12.

Edited May 4, 20233 yr by Bjoern

Quote

Trees dimensions look decidedly different between the two sims. I wonder whether X-Plane trees are to small, or the other sim has unrealistically oversized trees. It must be one or the other.

Trees in MSFS look much denser, in fact they look like trees are in reality. So they give the impression of filling the scenery. 

3 hours ago, bogdansrb said:

 in fact they look like trees are in reality

Sometimes, yes. Except when they're too dense. Then it's like marching through green marshmallows that magically look like clouds when you get close.

The sims trade punches when it comes to trees.

what I don't understand is why some people are moaning in this x-plane forum about how much better msfs is. Why even bother? Fly the flight simulator you like the best and stop ranting. You won't find me in a msfs forum, explaining over and over again why x-plane is much better. At each it own. 

2 hours ago, bogdansrb said:

in fact they look like trees are in reality. So they give the impression of filling the scenery. 

Did you really just complain that X-Plane seasons work as intended...... 🤦‍♂️

If you want it to look more like Summer set the time to summer

If you want winter... set winter (date and time section of start flight)

Really do not think that compares unfavourable with real life at all

Like, I'm not saying XP12 has every tiny little detail nailed to absolute perfection in every location all over the world, but that is a waaaay better starting point than what MSFS people have shared with me of that location, XP12.05r1 puts to bed a huge number of not insignificant issues over XP12.04r3 (the last non beta), that have been found from more people using X-Plane than ever before.

3 hours ago, bogdansrb said:

Trees in MSFS look much denser

And like, if you have an example where, at a particular date and place XP should be using much denser foliage, file it, their art team will look at it, and sometime soon it should be updated.

But from what I've seen the dense trees in MSFS is a bug not a feature. e.g.

vs

vs

I'm sure others will have differing opinions, but to me XP12 is smashing that out of the ballpark already, and there are years/decades of future improvements lined up, from core updates from Laminar to 3rd party artists leveraging the new tools available now and soon.

22 hours ago, mSparks said:

There is nothing Laminar can do about windows being garbage, it just is, the best they can do is make X-Plane available for better OS's, which they do.

Your opinion and I totally disagree. Laminar is releasing on 3 platforms. There is a quote "jack of all trades is a master of none".  My understanding is that they use a Mac development environment. Windows is their biggest market, so shouldn't the development be focus on windows first and then optimized for other platforms as a secondary step. I feel like they have things backwards. 

Microsoft has invested heavily in ensuring windows is a great platform for gaming and game development. There is an entire family of video console based on it. It is up to the developers to make sure they are taking full advantage. Supporting many platforms will always be a challenge and I suspect that is where some of the performance issues are coming from for Laminar. Jack of all trades is a master of none.

21 hours ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

MS2020 running three 75" screens @ 2K and one screen at 4K nice and smooth. I tried this in XP12 and it was a disaster, unflyable @ 4K on one screen and stutters/flickers @ 2K.

You've made some amazing progress on your setup since you last showed it.

3 hours ago, beep747 said:

what I don't understand is why some people are moaning in this x-plane forum about how much better msfs is. Why even bother? Fly the flight simulator you like the best and stop ranting. You won't find me in a msfs forum, explaining over and over again why x-plane is much better. At each it own. 

Because I'd rather fly XP12 than 2020 but it's unflyable, that's why. If one doesn't cry, one doesn't get things fixed. Although that's certainly doesn't seem true with networking!!! Been broke since xp10! Also note: One can cry about XP12 in an MS forum all day long, what will that accomplish??? 

 

Edited May 5, 20233 yr by Mike_CFII_MEL

25 minutes ago, brinx said:

Microsoft has invested heavily in ensuring windows is a great platform for gaming and game development.

No they haven't. They've ridden a wave of brand loyalty that has lasted waaay longer than it should have done. Right now, on XP12.05 there is an emerging windows OS specific bug which seems to be related to its broken/20 year old multithreading implimentation on windows that is causing CTD's on start, you may have seen it - "CTD unless starting another aircraft first" - that bug is windows specific, and "There is nothing Laminar can do about windows being garbage".

25 minutes ago, brinx said:

I feel like they have things backwards. 

They basically have two tracks,

The first track, all the POSIX systems (everything excluding windows) "make the best flight sim for hardware that will be common in 5 years time".

The second track, windows, "do the best they can with the hand they were dealt".

You, the consumer have a choice which you want to sim on, "backwards", imho, is paying for, wanting and expecting good performance out of an operating system, that best case is 50% slower than all other operating systems on the same hardware.

But, yes, windows is to big a market to ignore, the consequence of that is, for example:

Master-external visual networking being a long term, well known problem, that makes the likes of @Mike_CFII_MEL grumpy, that could be fixed with basically a one line call to fork() if they were not held back by

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14642496/any-simple-quick-way-to-fork-on-windows-ansi-c-beginthread-beginthreadex

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/985281/what-is-the-closest-thing-windows-has-to-fork

Edited May 5, 20233 yr by mSparks

22 minutes ago, brinx said:

You've made some amazing progress on your setup since you last showed it.

Hi,
Thanks, I'm trying! But I don't think I'll get the best of both sims (zibo mod 737 with XP12 controlling the show with MS2020 external visuals) working together, the bridge is proving difficult to use without flickers. I also found a few elevation issues, so it's time to look into Device Interface Manager (DIM) and MS2020 until XP12 gets its act together fixing the flickers and networking issues.

24 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Master-external visual networking being a long term, well known problem, that makes the last of @Mike_CFII_MEL grumpy, that could be fixed with basically a one line call to fork() if they were not held back by

I think you'd be a little grumpy as well waiting since XP10, how many years since 10's release for a fix????? I've seen you jumping up and down about VR for how long now????? I know you haven't been waiting as long for a ncie VR setup than I have for networking to be fixed!

XPlane 10 released in 2011?, so I've been waiting almost 12 years! Yeah, I think I earned the right to be a little grumpy!

Edited May 5, 20233 yr by Mike_CFII_MEL

21 minutes ago, mSparks said:

you may have seen it - "CTD unless starting another aircraft first" - that bug is windows specific

This is exactly what I mean. Windows specific bug because they all have a mac and probably not enough windows testing.  This is something that should/could have been caught during development, even before testing. By all means, develop for all platforms if they'd like, but the focus should be on the platforms with your largest user base. More customers would be happier.

On a side note, it would be nice if they engaged more with the community.  Like the DEV livestreams that we've gotten accustomed to from the other side, every other month or so. Laminar would get some useful feedback.

 

14 minutes ago, brinx said:

On a side note, it would be nice if they engaged more with the community.  Like the DEV livestreams that we've gotten accustomed to from the other side, every other month or so. Laminar would get some useful feedback.

 

Are you actually being serious?  Are you not aware they tried that, and the chat was bombarded by trolls from MSFS?  They've all but ruled out any further live streams because all the legitimate questions get drowned out by MSFS trolls.

1 hour ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

I think you'd be a little grumpy as well waiting since XP10, how many years since 10's release for a fix????? I've seen you jumping up and down about VR for how long now????? I know you haven't been waiting as long for a ncie VR setup than I have for networking to be fixed!

And that is among the least of the problems resulting from Laminar (and others) being forced by market conditions to support windows is responsible for....

And yes, I would, and am (just not quite as grumpy as you rightfully are), up to the point I have now pretty much booted windows.... out the window.

You should see the difference I'm getting between this windows ROG RTX3070 laptop and the m1 macbook air in preparation for this data analysis workshop I'm holding in a few weeks, I'm tempted to record them in a race just for kicks, on 100% identical code base the ROG laptop is taking hours to analyse burning hundreds of watts what is taking the M1 seconds to do burning tens of watts..... I'm not sure what I can do, other than say "yeah, you probably can't do this really cool stuff on windows at all". maybe WSL, maybe a cloud solution for windows users, but I'd rather put my time into things that actually matter....

But what exactly is the problem? I just added the macbook air as an independant external visual for the 744, the only thing I could see wrong there was a lack of custom dref sharing, which is also an issue with replay, but the sharedcockpit should cover that?

I was contemplating making that a default function of XTLua a few weeks back (but a while before that makes it to the top of my todo list)

22 minutes ago, brinx said:

probably not enough windows testing.

That's for sure, only complete masochists develop and test on windows, and they are even rarer than flight sim developers.

If you haven't noticed the only company to release windows software in the last 15 years or so has been Microsoft itself, and that was mostly about shifting people on azure subscription services (running Linux...).

22 minutes ago, brinx said:

Windows specific bug because

the windows networking and multhreading stack are even more borken than AMD GPU drivers.

Edited May 5, 20233 yr by mSparks

34 minutes ago, brinx said:

Laminar would get some useful feedback.

lack of useful feedback, after all these forum posts?

"we spent a lot of time reading forums and analyzing feedback to ensure we fully understood what the community wanted". 

Joerg Neumann, head of Microsoft Flightsimulator

 

Edited May 5, 20233 yr by turbomax