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Fry777

How pertinent is designing FS11 for hardware avail in the next 3 years?

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I think that the whole idea of a new version of FS being built for future hardware is essentially broken.For one, release cycles for MSFS are every 2-3 years. If the sim was being released every 6 years, then I'd understand having a lot of headroom. It's a bit silly to release a sim and then have hardware fully "catch up" a year or so (if then) before the next release. It makes absolutely no sense to me, and I can't think of any other games/sims I've played which follow this paradigm.Which raises the issue ... should MS "dumb down" the graphics in order to achieve this? Do we artificially just make everyone happy by allowing the sim to run with all of the sliders to the right? No, but I think MS should define features and set optimization goals by a current benchmark, not one a year or two following release.Personally, I'm still waiting for hardware to catch up with FSX. It's a bit depressing, because by the time I upgrade my system, I am sure they will be announcing FS11. My hope is that they really take advantage of computing power (GPU's, multiple CPU's) to deliver awesome graphics and immersion, and that they do it in a way that can be enjoyed fully and immediately without jumping into a time machine.

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I'd vote for designing for hardware that will be current at release. It's getting hard to even judge what the future hardware is gonna be - Phil's said for example that they assumed at the start of FSX development that future CPUs would go for faster clock speeds, but we now know it instead went for multicore with clock speeds staying relatively constant now.I'd love to buy an FS version that I could run at 60FPS on a current top of the line system right out of the box that day. That's what you get with most new games if you have a good current machine.

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FS11 wont be out for 2 years.Hopefully ACES are designing FS11 on the premise that multi core (ie quad core) and DX10 will be entry level by time FS11 is released. I think they should completely drop single core and DX9 support for FS11 because I believe that will just cripple the design of FS11.IMHO FSX should mark the end of the single core/dx9 era.

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Okay, after reading the first four posts on this subject, I have just two things to say. First, you are all 100% correct. Second, I would like to get these thoughts drilled into the minds of the ACES team. Performance goals based upon CURRENT hardware results in immediate satisfaction, happy simmers, less complaining etc... Good subject Jean Luc. I hope this is received and taken seriously by the ACES team.Curt

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great comment Ryan,it is great to see a developer support an idea that I also believe in. I commented on such in the 'list' thread at the top of this forum and was immediately hammered.the bottom line is this, the flight sim 'system' that I want to run will be FSX and multiple high end addons with frame rates at or above 35... period. The software is available now (good) and the hardware will be available in about 2-3 years (OK). So in three years I will have that 'system'As for now though, I will in the next few months purchase a complete new system to run FS9 (with addons) to acheive frame rates at or above 35... so personally I am right on schedule.

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Jim please take some time and re-read this entire post , thank youI personally think that the whole "build for the future" idea is wrongACES team should nail the required specs to run the simulator with full detail , no speculation about itACES should say "Ok the target machine for running FS11 is this (5000$) PC, AS WE HAVE ALREADY TESTED , if you get this kind of PC you should be able to run FS11 at full detail 60fps"ACES does need to build the software that can run at full speed by the time it hits the store because us , the users, will need a headroom for using Addons, I think no one in this world is running FS2004 without a single addon

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I'm with you, Ryan.I had a new E6600, 8800 GTX and 2GB RAM system in June. This ran FSX much better than my previous system, but still no where near maxed out.I am, of course, talking post SP1 here.FS9 is a totally different experience for me. With all the add-ons I've purchased through its life, UT, GE pro 2, AS6, FE. Not to mention your fabulous 737's and 747's.... LevelD and so forth.For once I can fly into EGLL with everything maxed and still FPS in the mid 20's + from the VC of the PMDG 747.This is a perfect example of FS being totally out of sync with hardware at time of release. Three years on, FS9 is a joy with this hardware and is still my dominant platform, in fact it feels like a new sim.FSX is a good sim, just frustratingly a head of current hardware, unless big compromises are made. In three years however, I think I will just be discovering what it can offer with my 5 or 6 gig CPU, whilst in the shops, there's FS11 ready to under perform on the same hardware.That's all from meStu.

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Hey Jean Luc-nice to see you here!I can see both sides. What if fs was designed for what is here-and next year there is a major breakthru in technology and computers are suddenly running twice as fast? The chicken or egg argument maybe? :-) Wait for hardware to catch up or wait for software to catch up.I guess in my case I'd rather risk the hardware catching up-as it seems to change faster than the software does.I agree-I still can't run fs9 with all sliders to the right, and I can't run fsx either that way on my 4 year old machine. But by careful selection of the sliders, I am actually getting better performance/looks on my machine with fsx than I did on fs9. When I finally upgrade my computer (looking for future hardware that will knock my socks off)-then I'll start sliding further to the right-and be even happier.If we had software that was designed to only run 60fps on present machines-I think we get what we have now-with the sliders permanently affixed turning off some features simmers consider important and others do not-let alone all the future requests on the list above. That is the way sims used to be before fUIII added sliders-and I have to admit people seemed happier. After all-you got a set of features whether you wanted them or not-and a single performance that was preset.A poll might be an interesting idea-we will talk about it and perhaps set one up!All the best-waiting eagerly for your next stuff!http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpgForum Moderatorhttp://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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As FS11 is supposed to do away with a lot of backwards compatability and get an engine upgrade, then I would hope that we would get better visuals than FSX with good performance on PC hardware that is available at the time of release.We shall see.......Glenn

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It would be really nice if PC could catch up with the rest of the platforms in area of distributed computations. That way, not only additional CPU cores will help but also external CPUs (old PCs and laptops) in your home network could take on some parts of simulation. In such a way, one can build up a home cluster from what resources are available (like XGrid on Mac, or Beowulf on Linux, etc.) and increase the complexity of, say, weather or ATC sub-models. You won't fix the rendering bottleneck without hi-end GPUs, but the physics and environment can be improved dramatically by using the distributed systems.Cheers,=S.V.=eMachines T5026/P4/3.07GHz/1Gb RAM/160Gb S-ATA HDD/Windows XP Home SP2/ATI RADEON 9250 PCI 256Mb/ViewSonic VX910 19' 1280x1024/Microsoft SideWinder Force Feedback 2

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that the FS Franchise is built to live in the long time, which means, when it is released, it can

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I thought I would throw my 2 cents in as well. I agree with the Jean Luc; however, I do realize there are difficulties in predicting what a top of the line computer will be on release day. So, let's be flexible: how about designing a new MSFS to run at full sliders right on a top end machine within six months of release day? Note this does not mean you get rid of sliders. Not everyone (dare I say most people) will not have a top of the line system on release day. The sliders are necessary for those folks (which are many) to adjust their setting to get smooth performance. Also, I do not subscribe to the thinking that MSFS should be pushing the envelope of hardware. IMHO, MSFS should be pushing the envelope of desktop flight simulation on whatever generation of hardware is available (or near available) at release date. Respectfully,JoshuaEDITED: I didn't like how my message read initially; so, I changed it to hopefully make my point clearer.

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I don't think we should "dumb down" the scenery at all. Leave it at FSX levels if necessary but don't lower the quality below FSX levels. Just my two cents worth.

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