39 minutes ago, Farlis said:

But it's also not rocket science. Half a dozen hops with the help of step by step guides and you should have it down. At least normal operations. That is how I learned all the study level aircraft over the years. And Boeing logic is the same for every aircraft, so once you understand one of them, you understand them all.

I agree with this.  I never had much issue jumping from the 737 NG to the 747-400.  Sure, there are many differences, but to fire the bird up and program the FMC, the logic was so similar.  It's like the A320.  I would imagine a lot of other Airbus flight decks are this way too.  There will always be a high degree of nuance between speeds, number procedures, and other factors, but to just jump in and do a normal flight, it's rather easy.  I've never flown the default jets, except the Longitude, but the PMDG 747 was a fairly easy bird to pilot coming from the 737.  I would almost venture to say the PMDG 737 and Fenix A320 are easier to manage than the Black Square King Air or Baron, simply because more of it is automated. 

If you're used to only piloting the default MS planes, then yeah, you might not be accustomed to the more complex aircraft.  The A2A planes were a handful for some users because they forced you to follow certain real world procedures or you'd blow the engine or ruin the flaps, for example.  In reality, once you learn it well, it's so easy that I never had a failure in either the Comanche or Bonanza.  It also helps to keep your complex plane usage to a smaller number.  If you have 5 or 10 very complex planes, you likely won't be able to keep it all straight.  You can kill failures too, so that helps, depending on the plane/developer.

2 hours ago, andyjohnston.net said:

Wondering if there are others like me (although I suppose they wouldn't be reading this forum.)

I've been running various versions of Flight Simulator for 25+ years, starting with FS-5.1 up to the present.  I've never had any trouble getting the aircraft to do what I wanted until now.  It seems the most recent updates, trying to make them as real as the devs can, have pushed those aircraft beyond me.

Would it be at all useful to have perhaps some 'dumbed-down' aircraft so that people like me can use them?  I can do the piston driver guys, but the jets have gotten to be too much.  Even the formerly tame 747 seems to have become to complex.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Four steam gauge oldies are here in the last week or coming in the next two weeks:

FORD TRI-MOTOR (here now and new) (free until June 30 in marketplace)
FOKKER F28  (very soon coming)
BOEING STRATOLINER (very soon coming)
CARENADO 182RG (here now and new)

 

For instance:

 

Retractable gear extends less than the fix gear Cessnas. So you see over the nose easier on the ground (as she says). 

Add-on companies used to supply users with "tutorial flights" - PMDG and Aerosoft come to mind. 

Those have mostly been replaced by "youtube tutorials", many of those range from mediocre to worthless. Also, the way the youtube algorithm works, garbage floats to the top of your search. 

The way I do it is I write down on a piece of paper a kind of step-by-step guide to what I have to do. 

8 hours ago, Mace said:

I use checklists...this helps me tremendously.  There is no way I could be competent on so many aircraft at once...maybe some people can do that, but I cannot.

And if I don't fly something in a while, good luck!  I have to almost re-learn it.  It only takes a month or two for me to get rusty.

Why not try the A320 neo if you want to fly an airliner, it did not receive an update.

In terms of airliners, I believe Captain Sim have a fairly basic one on the marketplace that is easy to fly.

The first PMDG 747-400 in FSX came with the Boeing manual I printed it off. But since then PMDG was stopped due to the copyright. But there are loads of tutorials on YouTube.

Tutorial: PMDG Boeing 747-400 V3 Cold & Dark Startup + FMC Programming! [Prepar3D] [2017] - YouTube

10 hours ago, andyjohnston.net said:

Would it be at all useful to have perhaps some 'dumbed-down' aircraft so that people like me can use them?

I tend to agree with this sentiment. I'm not too sure of the direction MS is taking with the level of detail it is putting in default aircraft. In the past that has been the realm of third-party add-ons, and in my opinion it should stay that way.

Not that I'm complaining, mind you :).

10 hours ago, andyjohnston.net said:

 

Sorry, double post.

Edited June 27, 20232 yr by lzamm

The OP reminds me of my complaining that the garden gets larger every year (hint : it does not).

Anyway, Asobo, in its great wisdom, has included an Assistance Options panel to dumb down the difficulty of flying the aircraft you choose.  It is rather well done and  comprehensive. Of course, no real simmer (gamer, I dunno 😇) would use this but it may help.

Now, I welcome the trend of having default aircraft that are much better than they were before. I flew a lot the Xcub, have a ball with the Cabri and start to learn the TBM which sounds nice. I procrastinate a bit about the A310 but not because I get old and weary. No Sir ! Hmmm... 

Edited June 27, 20232 yr by Dominique_K

Some Aircraft like the A310 support the automated checklist. You only have to go from checklist to checklist, click the right button and everything happens magically. At some point you have to program the FMC, of course.

You guys speak of the A310.  That's a case-in-point.  I flew the A310 quite a bit 5-6 months ago, and got to be fairly decent at flying it.  But now I know the A300 is coming out soon(tm) and I expect to be clueless once it arrives.  Like I'll miss hitting that ILS switch just to do an ILS approach, then wonder why it didn't intercept.   Maybe once I fly it again it will all come back to me.

10 hours ago, Bert Pieke said:

These are indeed complex aircraft, and ATP training is extensive..  So, if you want to fly one, you will have to invest the time to learn...  PMDG can get you started on the 737, complete with documentation.. That may be a better starting point than the 747 😎

So true - step by step instructions on a couple of tutorial flights, plus the meaty PoHs.

All for $35. The documentation alone make it worth it.

Off the top of my head, the TBM and Longitude are pretty much dead simple to operate and can get you anywhere you want to go at speed.

SWS Kodiak is similar, but slower, of course.

If you want a simple but exquisite fast jet, the Just Flight Hawk is simply wonderful. Steam gauge with a GPS, and it works as IRL.

And depending on what kind of flying you want to do, other military jets tend to be quite simple to operate in MSFS.

13 hours ago, andyjohnston.net said:

I can do the piston driver guys, but the jets have gotten to be too much.

I can honestly say that I really don't have a clue (or any real interest) about how to fly any of the aircraft in this or any other sim. I usually start on the runway with the engines running, I know enough to work the flaps, throttle and brakes. As long as I can get off the ground, move around in the air, and get down again ok, I'm happy. I'll occasionally start at a stand with a tube to have a play with GSX etc, and might even actually taxi out and take off. I am happy to cold start in a heli and take off but again, I'm not going to p1ddle around with switches etc unles I absolutely have to. And the likes of the Gravel, Cub etc are no problem as they don't seem to need buttons pushing etc anyway. I don't do flight plans, ATC etc and I have all my options set to "easy" or whatever. I can bounce with impunity, and never run out of fuel. And you'll all no doubt be hugely relieved that I don't do mulitplayer!

But I have bought all sorts of aricraft and am quite happy flying them around. I have the PMDG DC6 and 737s, an MD11, various military of all generations etc. I've only ever bought one aircraft that absolutely insisted on me pretending to be a pilot and wouldn't even start up without following an arcane set of procedures, and I can't even remember what it is as I've never used it.

My point is that it seems perfectly possible to fly around in probably 99% of the available aircraft in this sim without having any sort of competence, or even understanding, of the "real" procedures or rules required. It doesn't seem to me that we need "dumbed down" aircraft - if you're happy to be a "dumbed down" user the current ones are all ok.

That's one of the things I like about simming - it caters for both the cosplay pilots and the likes of me with ease. And it's not just MSFS, I'm the same with XP. Love 'em both, but there's no place for instruments in my simming anywhere. I just want to move good looking planes around in a good looking world, mostly in external view. I really enjoy my sims, but a cockpit is one of the most boring places in the world to me - the thought of pretending to sit in one for even an hour appalls me. I'd rather get a good book and sit on the cr*pper for an hour instead <grin>

Not belittling anybody who is serious about all that stuff, some of the home cockpits I've seen here are truly impressive and I can understand all that from a purely intellectual point of view, but like I say, it seems to me that even the more complex aircraft can be flown easily if you're just wanting to get in the air and move from place to place.

Edited June 27, 20232 yr by andy1252
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