Just Flight Fokker F-28 release date Wed 12th July

[RichieFly 737]

9 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

Excuse me but still updating an aircraft only one year after release is the bare minimum I expect from a developer, not something to point out as a positive thing. Let's not drop the bar completely.

You do you.

Edited July 8, 2023 by RichieFly
What's the point?

[UrgentSiesta 942]

21 hours ago, Krakin said:

$70 US for an add-on like that is too high in my book. It's not a AAA game. I think the MSFS market is big enough for them to ask no more than $60

They do really good work and have definitely raised the bar for themselves, but they're still stuck in the old pricing models of the legacy sims.

I think PMDG and Fenix have established the NEW pricing paradigm, and other devs ignore that at their own financial peril. What is someone gonna buy: a modern, glass cockpit $50 737 / $60 A320, or a $70 steam gauge jet that's mostly out of service?

They're also stuck in the legacy flight model, which is somewhat another matter, but lowers the attraction of their birds. I.e., if iniBuilds can figure out CFD on their very first MSFS airliner, surely JF can do it by now, too...

 

 

 

 

 

[UrgentSiesta 942]

20 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

$70 is PMDG pricing. Is this expected to be at the same fidelity of a PMDG airliner, does anyone know?

Actually, $35 - $50 is PMDG pricing... 😉

Just Flight does good work and have really stepped up their game since moving to MSFS, but I don't think they're yet at PMDG/Leonardo level.

There's also the argument that this isn't a very complex glass-cockpit modern airliner with highly accurate completely custom FMS code, so why should it be priced as such?

[UrgentSiesta 942]

19 hours ago, Matchstick said:

Ultimately, like the 146, it's a niche aircraft that will sell a fraction of a 73x or A32x because most people don't really know (or care) about it and the per unit price has to reflect that

That's old school thinking.

The MSFS pool of buyers is vastly (VASTLY) greater than any other sim in history (and we know this is true because no other FS dev is bragging about their user base, or even talking about it).

AND they're also highly cost sensitive at the same time.

The way to profit with a "niche" aircraft there is with a lower selling price driving higher unit sales. PMDG & Fenix are showing everyone the way there.

[Lucky38i 1,106]

13 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

They do really good work and have definitely raised the bar for themselves, but they're still stuck in the old pricing models of the legacy sims.

I think PMDG and Fenix have established the NEW pricing paradigm, and other devs ignore that at their own financial peril. What is someone gonna buy: a modern, glass cockpit $50 737 / $60 A320, or a $70 steam gauge jet that's mostly out of service?

They're also stuck in the legacy flight model, which is somewhat another matter, but lowers the attraction of their birds. I.e., if iniBuilds can figure out CFD on their very first MSFS airliner, surely JF can do it by now, too...

Are you being purposely deceptive? The PMDG both the -700 and -800 variant are $70/£52/65EUR . The Fenix is £50/$64/58EUR and the F28 is also, $70/£52/65EUR. All aircraft are roughly in the same price point with two, PMDG and F28 offering multiple variants upon purchase. It's a deeply simulated aircraft much like it's similarily priced counterparts so why is it less deserving simply because it's.. old?

Literally have no idea what you mean legacy flight model as all of their aircraft use the modern flight model. It's fair to argue that their ground modelling is a discussion to be had, but so is a lot of planes. While CFD would be a agurably useful addition, why is it a knock on JF for not using it but not PMDG or Fenix?

Edited July 8, 2023 by Lucky38i

[Lucky38i 1,106]

9 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Actually, $35 - $50 is PMDG pricing... 😉

Just Flight does good work and have really stepped up their game since moving to MSFS, but I don't think they're yet at PMDG/Leonardo level.

There's also the argument that this isn't a very complex glass-cockpit modern airliner with highly accurate completely custom FMS code, so why should it be priced as such?

Can you explain what it is that PMDG has that JF doesn't?

Are you arguing that the pneumatics, electrics, hydraulics, and so on that are simulated don't deserve merit because the aircraft is missing an FMS?

[Fiorentoni 4,367]

5 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

The way to profit with a "niche" aircraft there is with a lower selling price driving higher unit sales. PMDG & Fenix are showing everyone the way there.

That makes no sense: PMDG & Fenix make no niche aircraft, so they can surely not show the way for a niche aircraft.

[UrgentSiesta 942]

15 hours ago, Ridvan Celik said:

I’m just a big believer in people should get paid for what they do. And it’s not like they are a new dev, they develop good add ons and listen to the customer if anything else is needed.

They have a proven track record of hitting the mark, and from what I’ve gathered we get three variants? 

I understand it might be pricey but imo not unjustifiable. I rather devs be satisfied as much as we are, continue to bring these classics in and at high quality rather than them realising it’s not worth the effort…. And we get another what airbus line ? Or Boeing line? 

Me, too. But being in a highly competitive industry, you HAVE to adjust your pricing to what the market will bear, unless you are offering something MORE than what your competitors are. There is no such thing in this airliner.

This mindset of "niche product" = high price is false equivalence and poor judgement that leads to limited sales. Which then turns into a downward spiral of self-fulfilling prophecy...

JFs pricing is nothing more than a legacy mindset, especially in what is rapidly becoming a crowded lineup of airliners in MSFS, with the AAUs pushing the boundary of Value even more.

 

[PWJT8D 446]

4 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Actually, $35 - $50 is PMDG pricing... 😉

 

You're being a little light on the prices of the 737's  so let's break this down. If you were to purchase the 737 package right now it would cost you $224.96 for an average of $56.24 per variant.

Just Flight is selling 4 variants of the F28 for $69.99 for an average of $17.49 per aircraft. If you want to go by PMDG's pricing model the Fokker would be extremely cheap if you had the choice to purchase individual variants.

If the B146 is anything to go by, the F28 will be an incredible addon worth the price.

[UrgentSiesta 942]

11 hours ago, Ridvan Celik said:

Can I ask why not? If they have the same fidelity? And correct me if I'm wrong but that's 3 variants for that price, not one like other devs do. I guess we will wait and see once released. 

They do NOT have the same complexity of a modern airliner like the 737 NG or A320.

You can buy a single variant PMDG 736 for $35, a two variant 739 for $50, or a three variant 738 for $70. The difference in the 738 is you get 3 actually varying variants: Pax, Freighter, and Private Jet, with all the changes in equipment, etc., instead of just a lengthened cabin...

[UrgentSiesta 942]

8 hours ago, Matchstick said:

JF clearly don't think so and they have the experience of selling the 146 for more thana year to base that on

How do you know doing the same thing another time is the "right" choice?

[Matchstick 1,902]

15 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

 

The way to profit with a "niche" aircraft there is with a lower selling price driving higher unit sales. PMDG & Fenix are showing everyone the way there.

With sale numbers that will be order of magnitude greater than a genuinely niche aircraft like this.

This isn't JF's first high fidelity oddball airliner for MSFS and they know what price they want to charge for it. That's their prerogative and everyone gets to choose for themselves if they want to pay it.

[UrgentSiesta 942]

8 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

Yes, but this plane comes with an EFB straight out of the box

Good point and I can't say I agree with PMDGs course on their EFB. However, I think PMDGs is going to be just a bit better and more true to life.

e.g., let's not pretend that all "EFBs" are the same...

Edited July 8, 2023 by UrgentSiesta

[Christopher Low 5,393]

19 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

.........The way to profit with a "niche" aircraft there is with a lower selling price driving higher unit sales. PMDG & Fenix are showing everyone the way there.

How do you know if this is correct? Do you have inside information regarding the number of units of (for example) the BAe 146 that JustFlight have sold? I would argue that they have sold enough aircraft over the years to determine the best price point for each of their products. In addition, if a developer has put a huge amount of time, effort and money into a particular project, why shouldn't they price it accordingly? What gives any of us the right to say what they should sell it for?

[Matchstick 1,902]

1 minute ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Good point and I can't say I agree with PMDGs course on their EFB. However, I think PMDGs is going to be just a bit better and more true to life.

e.g., let's not pretend that all "EFBs" are the same...

Have you every used the EFB in the 146 ?