20 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

I have JF addons across 3 sims, so I've supported them plenty.

When they offer something rare, like their sublime Hawk T1/a or Vulcan, I'm willing to pay a reasonable premium for it.

But for Yet Another Vanilla Twin Engine Airliner? Not a chance.

You just lost all the little credibility you had with that last sentence… A “vanilla airliner”?  Really?  

19 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

For anyone that's been buying addons across multiple simulators for many years on end, it's quite easy to observe that JF are largely doing Exactly The Same Old Thing.

You're correct in ONE sense: we have no right to tell them how to price their addons. But we have EVERY right to tell them what we'll pay for them.

At these prices, with the other airliners available, there's nothing really to pique my interest here.

They’re about as far as possible from “The Same Old Thing”.  To anyone that has flown their old P3D offerings to their new MSFS offerings, it’s clear as day that their new offerings are a SIGNIFICANT step up, in terms of quality.

I am excited for this release.

Just don't get people complaining about it - either get it or don't.  Complaining about it (when not owning it) is well...you get the picture...on where i am going with this.  Access to these vintage birds is amazing.  In few years, we won't even have access to these historical birds as the world would have moved on.  I remember growing up, these birds were all over Europe.  Experiencing it on a new Sim is great news for us all (Try it in VR)  

 

As of right now there are no F-28 in civil service.  This is best way to experience it.  Fokker F28 Fellowship - Wikipedia

Edited July 9, 20232 yr by Skywolf

6 hours ago, MarcoPolo said:

Another off-putting thing about the addon, in my opinion. An EFB in a classic... why not do what PMDG did in the J41 and have a clipboard? Bonkers.

You can remove it at the touch of a hidden click-spot.

34 minutes ago, Skywolf said:

As of right now there are no F-28 in civil service. 

Apart from LADE, Lineas Aereas del Estado in Argentina:

Fuerza Aérea Argentina (opf LADE) F28-1000C - Flight from Aeroparque (AEP) to Mar del Plata (MDQ) - YouTube

5 minutes ago, Antonov22 said:

Apart from LADE, Lineas Aereas del Estado in Argentina:

Fuerza Aérea Argentina (opf LADE) F28-1000C - Flight from Aeroparque (AEP) to Mar del Plata (MDQ) - YouTube

wow...thank you for the share (but isn't that military, I was referring to Civil)...either way Excellent video.

Again IMHO there is no shame to put WX radar with all known limitation (for immersion). Leonardo did it! Also I would stick GNS430  similar way like PMDG did it in DC-6

1 hour ago, ual763 said:

You can remove it at the touch of a hidden click-spot.

How do you connect GPU / Chocks and other ground services with the EFB hidden?

10 hours ago, Ridvan Celik said:

In your opinion.... for many others its a welcome classic. Just because the plane and the price point doesn't fit your needs, don't project the negativity onto other people and developers. As they say here on the Avsim forums.... No one is forcing you to buy it. Anyway, that's enough of you for today, off you go. 

That's the great thing about open forums, ain't it?

As we're both potential buyers of this addon, and I presume we're both current JF customers, no?

Your opinion carries exactly as much weight as mine, doesn't it?

Indeed in the marketing biz, the NON-buying customer's attitude can be said to carry more weight, because THOSE people are the ones the developers need to understand in order to possibly convert them.

And certainly the only negativity being projected is by you, with your off topic snark and insistence on cheerleading every addon.

y'all giving my a headache.  whats next, you gonna spend 3 pages arguing if the sky is or is not blue?

8 hours ago, jason74 said:

Thats too cheep , I know PMDG released the 600 for that price but you cant expect Quality Developers continue to release products for that price , I beleave  in a fair price for Quality work not a cheap skate $35

Why not? Despite so many negative comments, PMDG are clearly reading the NEW market well. They've significantly decreased their prices overall AND have diversified their product line to an unprecedented degree.

By offering a number of different pricing options, they've guaranteed themselves thousands of NEW customers who NEVER would've paid $99-$200 for their 737.

And because of that savvy strategy, they've already said their MSFS addons have sold more than on all other simulators COMBINED - ever.

I.e., what they've given up in per-sale revenue, they've far more than made up for in increased unit sales.

PMDG have realized that MSFS is a Mass Market, and are conducting themselves accordingly.

And what are Just Flight going for? The Same Old, Same Old: bundling a number of very similar "variants" with a needlessly long list of liveries and forcing all that into just one SKU. And then saying, hey, of course it's high priced - look at All This Stuff we're including for "free"!

And thus never picking up any incremental revenue to offset sunk costs simply because they haven't realized they're playing in a whole new league now.

8 hours ago, jason74 said:

i can tell you what PMDG does not have That JF does ! EFB

Much of that functionality is already built into the FMC. And in case you haven't heard, EFBs haven't been a thing for very long in aviation, relatively speaking. When I learned to fly IRL, they were literally unheard of...and yet somehow, I survived!!!

IOW, if you believe the EFB is some major systems omission, you're sadly mistaken. Your loss.

8 hours ago, jason74 said:

EFB are used these days in classics its probably one of the pilots most used piece of kit. I think flying a airliner in 2023 without a EFB even in a classic is unrealistic.

Oh - the "Realism" card! Do tell - is that how pilots are arranging the pax in the cabin & cargo in the belly, wirelessly filling the fuel tanks with a swipe, removing pitot covers & chocks, and all that? Yes, yes - Super Realistic!!!

Y'know, I fly a number of addons with no EFB at all. And while they're certainly convenient, their absence just isn't that big of a deal when it comes to completing flights.

You should stretch yourself out of your comfort zone. It'll pay off.

2 hours ago, ual763 said:

The 737 & A320 are not “niche” aircraft.

 

PMDG charges $35-$50 for ONE variant.  The F28 will include 4.

That's right - they're super popular, and guess what THAT means? PMDG and Fenix could've charged a HIGHER price for them! It's Econ 101, my friend.

A less popular, niche addon that offers very little differentiation, needs to have some attraction to offset development costs. And in a commodity market, that is usually accomplished by LOWERING the price.

Again, how many people are going to buy a $70 retired steam gauge Fokker when they can buy a $50 737 or a $60 A320? Look at how car or computer manufacturers sell things - they make their money across an entire line of products. Some will be extremely profitable, some will be sold at razor thin margins just to get new customers to give your products a shot. In the end, it all balances out - when you think BIG. JF are still thinking SMALL...

On the "but all muh variantz...!" point, if the only option is buying ONE expensive package with a lot of virtually redundant "extras" in it, or not buying at all, a LOT of people are gonna choose the latter.

But if you give people OPTIONS, you'll sell more units overall.

It's Econ 101, buddy.

3 hours ago, ual763 said:

You just lost all the little credibility you had with that last sentence… A “vanilla airliner”?  Really?  

Vanilla - absolutely. Boring, in fact, because it's so similar to so many other regionals, and limited in so many ways just like they are.

Give me more airliners like the 146 - which is actually interesting, uncommon AND highly capable of BOTH conventional & UNconventional operations.

And don't forget Mr UAL, there's more to life than airliners...especially boring ones.

2 hours ago, ual763 said:

They’re about as far as possible from “The Same Old Thing”.  To anyone that has flown their old P3D offerings to their new MSFS offerings, it’s clear as day that their new offerings are a SIGNIFICANT step up, in terms of quality.

Y'know, that's actually a great point! If JF had just carried forward their old models and textures, we'd all be pissing on their laziness and lack of effort. 

But they haven't - they've taken full advantage of the new sims advanced capabilities.

OTOH, they've dragged their old sales practices into an entirely different, vastly bigger market, and they're likely not achieving the level of success they could otherwise. And we're not getting the choices other devs are already offering. So guess who's getting all the money in the end?

If their PMs are smart enough to realize they needed to adapt to the new simulator, we can only hope their marketing folks will eventually wake up, as well.

Edited July 9, 20232 yr by UrgentSiesta

1 minute ago, UrgentSiesta said:

OTOH, they've dragged their old sales practices into an entirely different, vastly bigger market, and they're likely not achieving the level of success they could otherwise.

You know this, how?

5 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

You know this, how?

Have you been paying attention to the biz side of simming for at least the last 4 or 5 years?