15 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

That perspective holds merit for a sim where the bottom's fallen out of the market (e.g., P3D).

However, XP v12 is, by all information available to us (including the Navigraph survey and first hand comments from developers on AvSim and elsewhere), positively thriving.

I can even understand if JF need to charge an upgrade fee for XP12 addons. I've paid a few of those for the best addons to keep flying them in XP, and JF is one of the devs where I'd be willing to consider reasonable fees to justify the work.

Our extra work on this then needs to be able to feed the mouths of ourselves and of the Thranda team. There's not the extra business there for us to be able to jump right in at the moment, that much I will tell you.  We're not at P3D levels but it's not a viable business model for us just at the moment. Not for a moment saying it's dead in the water but for now it's not something we're able to continue at pace with.  Discussions ongoing in the background with Thranda and internally about the situation and where we might go from here.  The Navigraph survey and your other information might well tell you one thing but this is first-hand from us, as things stand currently it's not a wise option and given we only have finite resource available to us, as do Thranda it's a minor priority at best just now.  Sorry, maybe not what you want to hear but that's the situation at present. Hope that helps for now. 

13 minutes ago, Lucky38i said:

When did I ever suggest that? All of my usage of examples have been with payware aircraft that exist within MSFS, but you continue to use deceptive or even outright lies about the price of other products. Fenix and PMDG for example ,have roughly the same price point as this aircraft, I've pointed that here out but you ignored that comment and continue to insist that Fenix is $60, it's not. You also use the much cheaper and less desired variants of the PMDG aircraft to try and push your bias.

I've pointed this out several times and you continue to use strawman argument and edge cases to convince yourself that a product that you don't have much interest for, should be priced at a lower rate than aircrafts that you do want. Even now you've moved the goalposts from using other aircraft as examples as pricing to now using scenery and dictating that Asobo has created a pricing guidelines, when Asobo have done no such this, it was simply a result  of the exponentially higher market and more newcomer developers to the scene that has less to these more affordable pricing habits.

So yes, I have been absorbing the "perspective" quite clearly despite your unnecessary snark, however you continue to insist the pricing for this "generic twin airliner" should be made much more cheaper than the other examples you've used simply because you don't have an interest in it.

How many more goalposts are you going to move to? how many more strawman and diverging topics will you use to continue to ignore the main point that is, you don't care for this aircraft and so you want it at a cheaper price point?

Much word salad here, so let me make keep the RE-responses short:

There's simply no deception in my remarks. And sorry, not sorry that I use round numbers and don't keep track of addon pricing to the dollar...

In re the specific pricing examples of PMDG vs JF: from which developer can I buy a "Study Level" airliner for $35? Not Just Flight.

And between those two developers, which one used to charge $100+ for their "Study Level" airliners in the legacy sims and has radically adjusted their pricing matrix in the new sim's new market? Not Just Flight.

In re Fenix vs Just Flight, which developer brought unprecedented low pricing for a Study Level to MSFS (especially when the going rate for similar A320's is $90 - $120)?

If you didn't catch the pricing guidelines that Asobo talked about, that's bad on you. Not going to dig it up for you.

And even if they didn't (which they did), and it's true market pressure that's lowered the price of airports (which are still addons, buddy, regardless of whether they have wings or not), it's even more evidence that MSFS prices are going DOWN vs the old school legacy sims.

In any case, what I'm really asking for is a CHOICE of pricing models, and justifying that request with reasonable examples and evidence in support.

What I'm NOT doing is using ad hominem attacks, such as you are. The basic rule is first one to call names loses the argument because they obviously have no other basis upon which to stand (and that's YOU and a certain Aussie, if it isn't abundantly clear).

27 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Much word salad here, so let me make keep the RE-responses short:

There's simply no deception in my remarks. And sorry, not sorry that I use round numbers and don't keep track of addon pricing to the dollar...

except you used the exact figure amount regarding the -600 and -900. Curious how that happened.

Quote

In re the specific pricing examples of PMDG vs JF: from which developer can I buy a "Study Level" airliner for $35? Not Just Flight.

irrelevant to the topic as it’s an extenuating pricing model. You won’t actually see that on PMDG major sellers. 

Quote

And between those two developers, which one used to charge $100+ for their "Study Level" airliners in the legacy sims and has radically adjusted their pricing matrix in the new sim's new market? Not Just Flight.

but justFlight has so what is the point you’re making here?

Quote

In re Fenix vs Just Flight, which developer brought unprecedented low pricing for a Study Level to MSFS (especially when the going rate for similar A320's is $90 - $120)?

How is this even an argument if you’re comparing fenix to other Airbus devs? Is there any other BAE or Fokker devs I’m unaware of, that this extrapolation can be used towards JF? 

Quote

If you didn't catch the pricing guidelines that Asobo talked about, that's bad on you. Not going to dig it up for you.

Ok, to my knowledge that doesn’t exist, you can’t make a claim on something with no reference to it.

Quote

And even if they didn't (which they did), and it's true market pressure that's lowered the price of airports (which are still addons, buddy, regardless of whether they have wings or not),

are you suggesting that aircraft developers have similar prices to scenery? However this really has nothing to do with the topic at hand, again.

Quote

it's even more evidence that MSFS prices are going DOWN vs the old school legacy sim.

Yes, JF has demonstrated reduced prices from legacy sims, not that that has anything to do with the topic at hand which is JF’s pricing model against other developers for MSFS. Another diverging topic you’ve brought into the topic.

Quote

In any case, what I'm really asking for is a CHOICE of pricing models, and justifying that request with reasonable examples and evidence in support.

this bundled pricing option was what JF deemed fit but to be honest you never made that clear, good to know now. You did try using PMDG’s pricing model to be applied here but it wouldn’t really work that way it could possibly with the BAE146 offering.

Quote

What I'm NOT doing is using ad hominem attacks, such as you are. The basic rule is first one to call names loses the argument because they obviously have no other basis upon which to stand (and that's YOU and a certain Aussie, if it isn't abundantly clear).

I haven’t named called you. I stated you’re moving the goalposts and using strawman argument’s which.. you have. That isn’t an attack it’s just my interpretation of your actions.

I engaged with you with the sole purpose of trying to understand your hypocrisy and hopefully change your stance on this whole situation but you never came here with any intention of trying to learn or understand, even Scott’s remarks you’ve shown no intention of getting. So this is a discussion in futility to be honest, my final piece is,

Just don’t buy the plane. 

Edited July 10, 20232 yr by Lucky38i

Bit too expensive for my taste but I can't wait to see content creators take it for a spin, would love to see all of JF's fine details and how the F-28 operates.

2 minutes ago, Sethos said:

Bit too expensive for my taste but I can't wait to see content creators take it for a spin, would love to see all of JF's fine details and how the F-28 operates.

There's already a load of coverage out there for you to view if you wish.  Around ten streams from content creators already live using the pre-release build.  All on YouTube, along with our own in-house F28 videos.  Enjoy if you do take a look.

Well I'll be getting this on day 1. Wasn't sure originally, but UrgentSiesta had talked me into it!

4 minutes ago, JustFlightScott said:

There's already a load of coverage out there for you to view if you wish.  Around ten streams from content creators already live using the pre-release build.  All on YouTube, along with our own in-house F28 videos.  Enjoy if you do take a look.

Thank you, I'll check it out, appreciate it.

54 minutes ago, JustFlightScott said:

Our extra work on this then needs to be able to feed the mouths of ourselves and of the Thranda team. There's not the extra business there for us to be able to jump right in at the moment, that much I will tell you.  We're not at P3D levels but it's not a viable business model for us just at the moment. Not for a moment saying it's dead in the water but for now it's not something we're able to continue at pace with.  Discussions ongoing in the background with Thranda and internally about the situation and where we might go from here.  The Navigraph survey and your other information might well tell you one thing but this is first-hand from us, as things stand currently it's not a wise option and given we only have finite resource available to us, as do Thranda it's a minor priority at best just now.  Sorry, maybe not what you want to hear but that's the situation at present. Hope that helps for now. 

It might be worth noting that a lot of simmers like myself now only have two sims to spend my money on, while MSFS is my number one sim, a bit more might be spent on XP12 as I've decided not to get P3D v6, after spending about £2k on FSX/P3D there will be no further spending on the P3D platform for me, which means more money for my other two sims.

Edited July 10, 20232 yr by Amon1973

Looks nice but this falls within the Maddog price bucket for me which is a no thank you. I'm sure people who are interested in the regional classics will pick it up though. I can see myself paying that amount for modern up to date study level commercial aircraft or make a one time exception for a heavy classic. Not for a regional. 

 

Edited July 10, 20232 yr by Maxis

9 minutes ago, Dave CBFS said:

Well I'll be getting this on day 1. Wasn't sure originally, but UrgentSiesta had talked me into it!

Me too.

Anyway, I enjoyed the Aerosoft / Michael Cependa DC-8-50 in P3Dv4 and the Fokker F28 gives me the same vibe -- turbojet, smoking and going.   I'm looking forward to the F28, the A300B4, and the Piper Tomahawk (praying for health of the developer on the latter).

15 minutes ago, JustFlightScott said:

There's already a load of coverage out there for you to view if you wish.  Around ten streams from content creators already live using the pre-release build.  All on YouTube, along with our own in-house F28 videos.  Enjoy if you do take a look.

As I'm really more interested in buying the JF F70/100, are the F28 totally separate products i.e. will there be any discount for the F70/100 if you already own the F28?

If so I may still get the F28, as it would make the purchase more justifiable.

4 hours ago, Lucky38i said:

Yes if you have the GNS530, then you use BEAM mode which will capture the lateral path from the GPS.

The Fokker F28 came with a GNS530 option?

@JustFlightScott How many tutorials will you guys have for this?  I really want a complex tutorial which uses all the navigation function and gives us an idea on how to fly with it.  If you can throw in some simple failures happening with solution on the tutorial that would be epic.  We could do EHAM to LOWI 

 

45 minutes ago, Skywolf said:

@JustFlightScott How many tutorials will you guys have for this?  I really want a complex tutorial which uses all the navigation function and gives us an idea on how to fly with it.  If you can throw in some simple failures happening with solution on the tutorial that would be epic.  We could do EHAM to LOWI 

 

Four tutorial videos on their way. Should be released together tomorrow. Failures are going to follow, post release. 

Hope that helps. 

On 7/9/2023 at 11:47 AM, DD_Arthur said:

I have nothing to add to this thread except well done to Just Flight and I hope this encourages them to bring the BAC 1-11 and VC10 to MSFS.

Oh yeah, I too live by a beach

Strangely, I've never had the urge to drink cocktails here.....

Adopt me!!