7 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

PMDG and Fenix make exceedingly complex modern airliners in a market where customers complain if the freakin FONT on the LCDs isn't correct, or the colors are the "wrong" shade of blue/green/magenta. Their investment of thousands of people-hours into writing VERY accurate FMS code is undisputed.

And yet they can figure out how to sell MORE for LESS.

Sell the simpler, lower cost to develop, less popular airliner at a lower price and what what happens to your revenue.

Aerosoft sold literally unprecedented numbers of their CRJ for MSFS. Back when it was the only High Fidelity airliner available.

This is just another tubeliner, so if you want more of my money than other devs of similar quality, give me a reason to buy it. Right now, there is none.

 

For me personally the price is too high, too, but that doesn't mean I can generalize that to "the pricing is wrong". For a niche aircraft, especially in a saturated market like we have with the PMDG, Fenix and Maddog available for over a year, there is a small enthusiast group of simmers that will buy it more or less regardless of the price. Then there is a larger group of potential customers, that might buy it if it's really low priced (like 30-40 dollars). How low you price your aircraft depends exactly on how large that second group is. JustFlight have obviously thought that group would be rather small, so they chose to price it accordingly in order to earn more from the smaller niche enthusiast group. You can clearly see that in the 146: Originally they wanted to sell it at about 80 dollars, then, after some comments and after realizing the market is wide open (IIRC the PMDG and Fenix wasn't released yet, only the Maddog was), they chose to lower that price to 60 dollars thinking that second larger group of potential customers might be bigger because of the lack of alternatives yet.

If the pricing of the Fokker is adeguate (= maximizing profit) I don't know and will never get to know, but I can clearly see the reasoning they did, even if for me personally, I'm part of that larger saturated group that will not spend 80 dollars for a plane they'll rarely fly at all.

 

1 minute ago, UrgentSiesta said:

No, not at all.

Why are you making the simplistic assumption that I WANT to pay EXTRA for every single variant of an aircraft?

In the 737 I only want the BBJ and the 736.

In the 146 I only want the QC and the C.Mk3.

Guess which devs get me closer to being able to choose what I want?

Based on the 146, I agree the F28 will be a great addon. But given today's plethora of high quality addons, the F28 has very little to differentiate it and still command a higher price.

 

 

I'm struggling to think of another pure analogue 60s era turbo jet in a current gen sim, let along MSFS,

FlyJSim 722 and 732 maybe though those are quite a bit larger than the F28 and I'm not sure if they have X-Plane 12 support.

The Felis 747-200 definitely does have XP12 support but I think we can all agree that is a totally kind of plane to the F28.

So which planes you are thinking of ? 

1 hour ago, Christopher Low said:

How do you know if this is correct? Do you have inside information regarding the number of units of (for example) the BAe 146 that JustFlight have sold? I would argue that they have sold enough aircraft over the years to determine the best price point for each of their products. In addition, if a developer has put a huge amount of time, effort and money into a particular project, why shouldn't they price it accordingly? What gives any of us the right to say what they should sell it for?

For anyone that's been buying addons across multiple simulators for many years on end, it's quite easy to observe that JF are largely doing Exactly The Same Old Thing.

You're correct in ONE sense: we have no right to tell them how to price their addons. But we have EVERY right to tell them what we'll pay for them.

At these prices, with the other airliners available, there's nothing really to pique my interest here.

1 hour ago, Matchstick said:

Have you every used the EFB in the 146 ?

Yep.

Next point?

2 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Yep.

Next point?

That's for you to explain why you are certain the PMDG one will be better

Edited July 8, 20232 yr by Matchstick

I'm impressed that there is so much interest in this - because I have zero haha

I wish just flight well with their sales though!

57 minutes ago, Matchstick said:

Vanilla ? You're expecting something like a clone of the CRJ or MD-80 ?

Yep. Pure, plain Vanilla. 

 

47 minutes ago, Matchstick said:

So are you suggesting JF should have charged $35 for each of the Mk 1000, 2000, 3000 & 4000 variants ?

Yes.

 

35 minutes ago, blueshark747 said:

What are you even talking about?

Did you not follow the progress of the F28 the past almost two years?

The F28 is a complete ground up build of a super rare old school analog aircraft.

It's a great addon of an unremarkable IRL aircraft.

The 146? Yeah - that was something special. Hawk, Vulcan, & Tornado define "super rare" and are more worthy of your sentiment.

25 minutes ago, Lucky38i said:

Again, you've made it very clear that you just don't want the aircraft. Just say that, why pick everyone with opposing views to yours and reply to their comment. You literally have nearly a page of just you replying to things you don't agree with. The aircraft is simply, not your taste. You're not even bringing constructive points here, making statements with no credibility while propping up PMDG for no reason when it's not even the subject of this conversation.

Quite frankly what are you here to do? Argue in bad faith?

So much Wrong Think in there I need to ignore most of what you blabbed, so let me try to boil it down for you:

If the F28 offered something...anything...that elevated it from the competition, I'd be happy to buy it regardless of how I feel about the aircraft itself.

Very much like the pending A2A Sims Comanche, which is an IRL aircraft that generates no excitement for me. But A2A is delivering such a Next Level rendition of it that I simply don't care and will happily uninstall my other GA addons.

And, all signs are that they'll offer it at the same price as JFs Pipers. Which are neither the best GAs available, nor the cheapest. 

Do you maybe get it...now?

30 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

For me personally the price is too high, too, but that doesn't mean I can generalize that to "the pricing is wrong". For a niche aircraft, especially in a saturated market like we have with the PMDG, Fenix and Maddog available for over a year, there is a small enthusiast group of simmers that will buy it more or less regardless of the price. Then there is a larger group of potential customers, that might buy it if it's really low priced (like 30-40 dollars). How low you price your aircraft depends exactly on how large that second group is. JustFlight have obviously thought that group would be rather small, so they chose to price it accordingly in order to earn more from the smaller niche enthusiast group. You can clearly see that in the 146: Originally they wanted to sell it at about 80 dollars, then, after some comments and after realizing the market is wide open (IIRC the PMDG and Fenix wasn't released yet, only the Maddog was), they chose to lower that price to 60 dollars thinking that second larger group of potential customers might be bigger because of the lack of alternatives yet.

If the pricing of the Fokker is adeguate (= maximizing profit) I don't know and will never get to know, but I can clearly see the reasoning they did, even if for me personally, I'm part of that larger saturated group that will not spend 80 dollars for a plane they'll rarely fly at all.

I think this is a GREAT perspective.

And I want to be clear that I'm not generalizing that JF are "wrong" in the price, or that we have the right to dictate pricing to them (OTOH they did respond to people like me on the 146, right...? 🙂 ).

As a long time JF customer across 4 simulators, my Constructive Criticisms here are that I don't see JF making experimental moves to test the market such as PMDG and Fenix have don. They're basically following a well trod path established in legacy flight sims where the consumer base is radically different. And guess what happens when you do stuff like that? Mediocre results, at best.

The Fokker (or one of their others) would've been a perfect opportunity to do the market testing (similar to what PMDG has done with the 736). It's so important because it would've been a valid comparative data point that would apply to ALL their future addons.

But they're just doing more of the same, and that's what they'll get.

 

21 hours ago, Ridvan Celik said:

I’m satisfied with the quality of just flights add ons, proven time and time again that they do it well. They have done the work and I’ll pay the price

I have great experience with their email tech support also. They've always followed-up to close an open ticket. I usually get a reply within 24-48 hours. 

12 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

JustFlights track record is mediocre at best

😮😮

I have no words to reply, the statement is just way out there...

Cool little plane. I'm happy w/ my BAE-146 and am unlikely to add this to the hanger---that said, I could see myself picking it up on sale down the line.

 

Since the price seems to be a point of argument here, I'll simply add that the "right" price will only be known by JF after they've released it. Sells well=right price, sells poorly=wrong price. Why do people argue about it? Just decide if it's the right price for you and move on, ffs. 

Well, it's quite a nice looking thing. The exterior looks good, as does the interior. No interest in the flight model or accuracy and integrity of the instruments - I never use 'em anyway. As long as it can be started hot on the runway, or at least has a bunch of checklists I can click through, I'll probably buy this, but only in a sale or when I've next got a big bundle of loyalty points on the JF site.

If they want to charge 70 dollars for it, that's up to them. If you don't want to pay 70 dollars (or whatever it is) for it, that's up to you.

I am new here but I really don't get the impassioned arguments. I came to this thread to learn details about this new F28 -- an aircraft I'm not all that familiar with. Seven pages in and there is almost nothing said about the actual aircraft. It is almost exclusively a food fight between those who think it is overpriced and those who either think you should buy it anyway to support the dev or should not complain about the price. No one here is going to come away from such a discussion thinking, "you know he has a point -- I now think $70 is quite reasonable" or "you know he has a point -- $70 is too much even though I like JF and really want an F-28." So what is the point of all of this bickering?

Assuming it isn't just that people like to argue, I sense that some people  here are concerned that the precedent primarily set when PMDG decided to price their MSFS DC-6 so reasonably, and followed by the more-than-reasonably priced study-level Fenix A320, might be eroded by an F28 (successfully) selling for $70.

JF is in this business to make money. Everyone is. They need to find a sweep spot in pricing that allows them to maximize their earnings on their product. If they were convinced they could sell a million of these at $29 each, but only sell 10,000 of them at $99, I think we know what they'd do. Time will tell if they made the right decision. But each one of you has the power to influence future pricing decisions with your purchases or lack thereof.

I might have bought this if it were $29, but there's a zero percent chance that I will at this price, but that's because I really don't care whether or not I ever actually have an F28 in MSFS. If it were one of the three aircraft I really want to see in this sim, I'd go ahead and pay it even though I wouldn't be happy about it; I think we can all agree that virtually all of the people who will buy this are big-time fans of the F-28 and that people like me won't be tempted no matter how good the aircraft turns out.

JF has made the decision to price it higher, perhaps anticipating it won't be a huge seller because it's not the most popular aircraft in the skies, and that's their right. No one should be telling the other side how to spend their money. The marketplace, as always, will decide whether this price is reasonable.

Can we please agree to not have a seven plus page discussion about the price of an aircraft ever again, okay? In a sim that literally offers you the entire world and has some now-amazing default aircraft, there really are better things to do with our time. 

 

16 minutes ago, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot said:

 

Can we please agree to not have a seven plus page discussion about the price of an aircraft ever again, okay? In a sim that literally offers you the entire world and has some now-amazing default aircraft, there really are better things to do with our time. 

 

You ARE new here lol....avsim wouldn't be avsim without a seven page discussion