OK, who's ready for a nice, long unpaid vacation?  My trigger finger is getting itchy! 

-delete-

Edited September 3, 20232 yr by Tuskin38

28 minutes ago, charliearon said:

OK, who's ready for a nice, long unpaid vacation?

We're getting paid!? 😂

5 hours ago, filou said:

for the feeling of being in an airplane I use XP12 it helps a lot to forget the light effect of a paper airplane

Is there any way to describe what it means to have a "paper airplane" effect in a flight simulator?  I read this quite a bit but don't really know what it means in practice.  One area I noticed early on when flying only GA planes was the sense the plane would ricochet off of wind, back and forth at times.  For example if you make a sudden rudder or aileron action to make the plane say move left, it will initially move left then bounce right, sometimes back and forth.  Does that capture the idea perhaps?  I only fly airliners and this effect is muted then.

5 hours ago, filou said:

For the feeling of being in an airplane I use XP12 it helps a lot to forget the light effect of a paper airplane

Now of that ain’t Trollin’, I don’t know what is.  
 

We’ve got experienced IRL commercial pilots comparing the 737s and Airbuses and all seem to come down to them being more than adequate in terms of FM. 
 

similar with folks who are more familiar with IRL GA aircraft. 
 

have you tried the MSFS C172 G1000 vs the XP version? 
How about the Cabri vs XP R22?

None are “fantastic” vs the best payware, but all are very good. 
 

have you compared the XP default C172 to SimCoders or AFL? Some distinct differences between them shows that an addon in XP is no guarantee of a supercalafragilistic flight model. 

should we drag the fast jet military flight models in for consideration? Based on folks who flew them for real, XP is distinctly lacking in that milieu.

and then we can consider that for sheer flying/systems accuracy, A2A Sims seems (still) to be the ne plus ultra - regardless of sim.

in sum, if you want to actually debate the relative merits of each sim, or addon, hey, I’m down for that  

but to to just bust in with grossly INACCURATE stereotypes places you firmly on the side of “fool without doubt”.

 

 

It all seems to be opinion. There are some real 172 Pilots that say the base sim one feels accurate, and some 172 pilots who say it doesn't.

Same with the PMDG 737 and the Fenix A320.

Edited September 4, 20232 yr by Tuskin38

3 minutes ago, Noel said:

Is there any way to describe what it means to have a "paper airplane" effect in a flight simulator?  I read this quite a bit but don't really know what it means in practice.  One area I noticed early on when flying only GA planes was the sense the plane would ricochet off of wind, back and forth at times.  For example if you make a sudden rudder or aileron action to make the plane say move left, it will initially move left then bounce right, sometimes back and forth.  Does that capture the idea perhaps?  I only fly airliners and this effect is muted then.

What you describe is often referred to as stability. You impose a force and the object returns to its initial state. The opposite of that, instability, results in fighting to get the result you want and is often called pilot induced oscillation (or porpoising). For what it's worth, I find it very easy to porpoise in MSFS compared to the real world. The comparison exists because paper airplanes are never stable, and RC Planes (which I'm sure you've heard MSFS compared to) are usually harder to fly than their RW counterparts because of the smaller resolution of flight controls, less inertia, and lack of force feedback.

I usually only get that feeling in default aircraft though, and not when using payware aircraft.

7 hours ago, Noel said:

Is there any way to describe what it means to have a "paper airplane" effect in a flight simulator?  I read this quite a bit but don't really know what it means in practice.  One area I noticed early on when flying only GA planes was the sense the plane would ricochet off of wind, back and forth at times.  For example if you make a sudden rudder or aileron action to make the plane say move left, it will initially move left then bounce right, sometimes back and forth.  Does that capture the idea perhaps?  I only fly airliners and this effect is muted then.

As you asked for demonstration ... watch from 2:55 on. Increasing the wind speed by only very few knots leads to ... see for yourself 😉

 

10 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

But thanks for reminding us that Einstein had quite a few accurate observations on the human condition...

That’s actually quite a hidden personal insult, so try winding your neck back in please and take your insults elsewhere. It’s people like you that ruin this forum. Absolutely no need whatsoever for that comment. If you can’t engage in a debate without getting personal, or respect other people’s opinions, try this:- don’t engage at all! 

Edited September 4, 20232 yr by Ianrivaldosmith

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on anything including MSFS. You may not agree with them but nevertheless, they are entitled to voice it. 

If you can’t accept that this forum is not the place for you. Any further instances of personal insults will be dealt with robustly. Don’t say you haven’t been warned.

I’ve hidden a post that ignored my warning. The poster now has a three day holiday. Let that be an end to it.

4 hours ago, flying_carpet said:

As you asked for demonstration ... watch from 2:55 on. Increasing the wind speed by only very few knots leads to ... see for yourself 😉

 

75 m/s wind (145 knots !) from 160° with gusts from 270° flying a Robin, what did you expect ?  

45 minutes ago, Jean-Paul said:

75 m/s wind (145 knots !) from 160° with gusts from 270° flying a Robin, what did you expect ?  

C'mon, he increased it by "only very few knots"😆For a wooden airplane like the Robin that's basically calm.

6 hours ago, flying_carpet said:

As you asked for demonstration ... watch from 2:55 on

I wonder what would happen in other sims.

5 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on anything including MSFS. You may not agree with them but nevertheless, they are entitled to voice it. 

If you can’t accept that this forum is not the place for you. Any further instances of personal insults will be dealt with robustly. Don’t say you haven’t been warned.

There is a big difference between voicing an opinion on a specific discussion versus regularly jumping into all MSFS 2024 threads and constantly bashing with the same old biased provoking arguments.