23 minutes ago, Sethos said:

Harsh as it sounds, I sometimes question people's enthusiasm about flight simming when you get excited and actually buy junk like this. At that point, there's no simulating anything, no well crafted addon so you can at least say it's for the love of the airframe, no supporting a passionate developer, you're actually supporting a sleazeball, you aren't learning anything about flight characteristics or systems because they are usually so completely off and 2/3 missing... You might as well hop into Google Earth's flight simulator, just to go up, down, left and right.

But hey, the business model seems to work, guess my priorities when flying a simulator are different.

It depends on how long you have been flightsimming.  I used to have a Boeing 757 that was like a total of 500 polygons, and had crude AA markings and I could only fly it to 2 airports that looked like block buildings.  It had a panel that was essentially just lines and random instruments that were somewhat arranged like a 757 cockpit.  Things like FS98 and FS2000 shaped the way us old timers bought things. If it it was functional we flew it. 2D panels, low poly, flight dynamics?  What were those?  High fidelity aircraft didn't even arrive in the flightsimming world until 2008 or so maybe even 2010.At the end of the day this is a game.  These aircraft are no more important to ones life than mods in World of Warcraft or League of Legends or a skin in a Hello Kitty game.

Captain Sim was a great developer with a good reputation. Their 757 and 727 were legendary.

 

35 minutes ago, aniiran said:

depends on how long you have been flightsimming.

You have to be thanked to have raised, by your good work, the level of a thread which had fallen quite low, mechanically following a stupid topic title.

CS has been, once upon a time, a good developer. I had their 727 , C130 and  a Yak. The old CS is certainly no more but I don’t see any attempt to cheat their customers. And it seems that their 717 shows a progression compared to their precedent MSFS birds. 

I am not interested by their present line of products but if some fellow simmers are, good for them. No need to demean anybody. The FS community is a motley crew, from the hardcore extremists 😃 to those staying outside the cockpit letting the aircraft flying by itself to watch the scenery. With a lot of different people in-between !

2 hours ago, Sethos said:

But hey, the business model seems to work, guess my priorities when flying a simulator are different.

The "business model" works because not everyone wants the same things from what is essentially, a computer game
that can be taken as more or less seriously as its user wants.
The much vaunted Maddog is no doubt far more faithful to the real thing, but it is also four times the price. 
There are those whose interest in procedures, flight characteristics, advanced physics and even flying techniques are
less their focus than their wish to just enjoy themselves.
The mistake is in the assumption that one point of view is superior or inferior to the other.
They are just different and if Captain Sim, without their systems developer(s), can still find a market, then good for them.
This one looks like a Boeing 727, both inside and out, even if it doesn't work exactly as it does in the real world.
A quarter of the price of a "study level" version of more or less the same thing doesn't seem too steep.

Perhaps the greatest irony is that there are so far six pages of free advertising, much of the content by those who wish to
decry both the aircraft and its developers and try to persuade us all not to buy it.
 

Edited September 30, 20232 yr by Reader

thanks   @aniiran  You saved me from doing what I knew inside would regret in the first place.  Not going to purchase this.  

 

Dear Abby,

A few months ago I met the most wonderful woman.  She's kind, very pretty, and we really seem to be hitting it off.  Next weekend I am taking her to meet my family in Moscow.

My older brother is a hit man for the Russian mob, and is currently on the run from the politsiya and will have to make only a brief incognito appearance.  My older sister is a high-end call girl that caters to Russian oligarchs for big money.  My younger sister is a heroin addict and has had three abortions in the last year.

And here's my problem, for which I need your advice--should I tell her about my little brother that bought the Captain Sim 717 for MSFS?

10 hours ago, micstatic said:

thanks   @aniiran  You saved me from doing what I knew inside would regret in the first place.  Not going to purchase this.  

 

You're welcome, my intention is not to convince anyone to buy or not to buy, but to give a real review of what works and what does not.  You are wise not to waste money on this.  For me spending 22.40 on this was no worse a blow than the awful lunch I had on Thursday at one of those terrible taco bars where the little tacos are 5 dollars a piece and then I'm supposed to pay someone 20% of my bill to bring me a plate and drink and run my card. 

I do get tired of the gate keepers and the taste makers coming into threads they know are about a developer they don't like just to word not allowed on them, then tell us who are interested in "subpar addons" that we are mentally defective.

7 minutes ago, aniiran said:

You're welcome, my intention is not to convince anyone to buy or not to buy, but to give a real review of what works and what does not.  You are wise not to waste money on this.  For me spending 22.40 on this was no worse a blow than the awful lunch I had on Thursday at one of those terrible taco bars where the little tacos are 5 dollars a piece and then I'm supposed to pay someone 20% of my bill to bring me a plate and drink and run my card. 

I do get tired of the gate keepers and the taste makers coming into threads they know are about a developer they don't like just to word not allowed on them, then tell us who are interested in "subpar addons" that we are mentally defective.

 

Appreciate the detailed review posts you wrote for people to read. Very useful.

My concern with people buying low effort add-ons is threefold:

1. The more sales of these products, the higher up the popularity chart they appear, the more likely to catch unsuspecting novice or less informed flight simmers unaware.
    
2. It floods the various stores and Marketplace with shovelware, discouraging purchases, as people start to think there's no value in add-ons in general.
   Quality products appear 'too expensive' compared to these lower grade add-ons and/or more casual flight simmers can't 'separate the wheat from the chaff' when it comes to finding better quality add-ons.
    
3. It signals to developers that they can put fewer resources into their wares.
   Far more effective on a time and financial basis for them to produce lower grade products, say, 12 months of development time giving 4 cheap add-ons vs. 12 months to create 1 expensive one. That could leave us with fewer acceptable to good add-ons to choose from if more developers start to think this way.
   (LatinVFR, for example, used to produce acceptable/good airport scenery. Now it's just different versions of a default airliner).

That's just my opinion and I can admit that it's heavily biased to what I think could, but don't want to see, happen.

It's your money and if buying a CS add-on makes you happy, that's all that matters.

4 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

 

Appreciate the detailed review posts you wrote for people to read. Very useful.

My concern with people buying low effort add-ons is threefold:

1. The more sales of these products, the higher up the popularity chart they appear, the more likely to catch unsuspecting novice or less informed flight simmers unaware.
    
2. It floods the various stores and Marketplace with shovelware, discouraging purchases, as people start to think there's no value in add-ons in general.
   Quality products appear 'too expensive' compared to these lower grade add-ons and/or more casual flight simmers can't 'separate the wheat from the chaff' when it comes to finding better quality add-ons.
3. It signals to developers that they can put fewer resources into their wares.
   Far more effective on a time and financial basis for them to produce lower grade products, say, 12 months of development time giving 4 cheap add-ons vs. 12 months to create 1 expensive one. That could leave us with fewer acceptable to good add-ons to choose from if more developers start to think this way.
   (LatinVFR, for example, used to produce acceptable/good airport scenery. Now it's just different versions of a default airliner).

That's just my opinion and I can admit that it's heavily biased to what I think could, but don't want to see, happen.

It's your money and if buying a CS add-on makes you happy, that's all that matters.

No problem. Those concerns have already been realized.  That's why internet forums like AVSIM, r/flightsim and youtube are so important to warn others or.. in this case make an informed decision on a risky developer. 

The success of MSFS has increased the amount of shovelware like Illuminators, MSFSSCENERY and Bredok3D but it has also brought us new developers like Ini-Builds and Fenix so it's a give and take. 

What I would like to see is Microsoft say IF a developer is charging for an addon they can not use any base code from any stock Asobo aircraft. But... we know they won't do that because 7% is a lot of money for doing nothing.

LatinVFR is a head scratcher, it's obvious that the scenery gig wasn't making enough money. At least when LVFR got called out for how bad their A321 was initially they fixed everything and made improvements.

Captain Sim is unlikely to do anything beyond the door, the light and maybe the transponder.  Maybe...

 

 

 

On 9/29/2023 at 7:54 AM, aniiran said:

The plane hand flies fine

I bought it.  Very happy. Probably unrealistic flying characteristics but hand flying is a pleasure. I don't have rudder pedals but it behaves well in the turn, feels solid.  The textures on the throttle quadrant are extremely bad though.  I think I'm going to have some fun with this one.  Plus it's very good on the frames which is important since I only fly VR.  I understand though if people don't want to put money in CS pockets. 

are there any wing views ?

13 hours ago, F737MAX said:

 

 

It's your money and if buying a CS add-on makes you happy, that's all that matters.

I agree at least with the conclusion, my friend 😄. Otherwise 

Choosing what is good or bad for the customer is a risky business which entails to define a frame of reference. And we are talking of  a product costing than 20 bucks here.  

Value is on the eye of the beholder as is price/quality ratio. 

Top-tier developers are in for the money (which is good !) but there is a passion for what they do which also pushes them to perfection. 

To review the product as @aniiran did is the way to go anyway, certainly not to start a thread with a slandering title. 

9 hours ago, Sunshine13 said:

are there any wing views ?

There are 13 external views in showcase mode. None of them are the classic wing view looking out through the cabin. Is that what you meant ?

Edited October 1, 20232 yr by mobeans10

Looks like CS has become the new Perfect Flight: flyable models with avionics borrowed from almost every single default airplane. Back in 2005 (when I started simming) I would have fallen for that, but not now.

And still no one has done the obvious one yet: a 747-400 with the 748 WT avionics? I mean, even PMDG did that trick once, albeit backwards (a 748 with their 744 avionics and dynamics) for their first FSX version. That's an exception I could make while waiting for PMDG, if the price is right.

Edited October 1, 20232 yr by Luis Hernandez

17 hours ago, aniiran said:

What I would like to see is Microsoft say IF a developer is charging for an addon they can not use any base code from any stock Asobo aircraft. But... we know they won't do that because 7% is a lot of money for doing nothing.

While I view the scourge of shovelware to be roughly equivalent to all the terrible Chinese knockoffs on Amazon that arrive broken, part of the reason behind the WT frameworks is to give a common framework for developers to use, so they don't have to worry as much about building the same avionics from the ground up every time.

Now, why so few developers seem to be using these is a different question.

As for CS, they've gone so far downhill I can't imagine buying a product from them anymore.

All you have to do to get outside the cockpit is go to the cameras.cfg    community>fsx360-aircraft-m717> sim objects>airplanes>FSX360_B717>cameras.CFG.   Under CAMERADEFINITION.0 change InitialXyz = -0.045, 0.7, -2.5 to -10.045, 0.7, -2.5. that will put you outside of the walls of the cockpit.  From there you can make your own views with ctrl+alt+ <number key> 1-0. 

You are able to get that classic engine and wing shot but the textures on the engine are low res.