MSFS tops Navigraph 2023 survey results

[Krakin 5,853]

44 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

Well there was a thread even in the XP-org-forum. But unfortunately @Krakin had to show up.

The thread closed because you were deluded enough to think the XP12 section of the .org forum got more posts in 14 months than our 2020 forum over here. This came up because you were making fun of the fact that someone made a thread celebrating the milestone of the 2020 discussion forum passing 500k posts. I wasn't over there bashing XP, if anything I was exposing your flawed logic and your unwillingness to ever just admit when you're wrong and take accountability. After I pointed out the fact that the XP12 general discussion section had posts dating back to 2002, you just doubled down and tried to add up the other subsections in a desperate attempt to not be wrong. Reminded me of that "look what they do to have a fraction of our power" meme from Invincible lol. I called you out on what you did and then the tread got closed. I think the mods realized reasoned discourse was off the table.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Krakin

[UrgentSiesta 942]

47 minutes ago, David Mills said:

Some on AVSIM pretend there's no such thing as VFR -- i.e., that the detail and accuracy of a flight sim's scenery is irrelevant to real-world training. Let's keep in mind, however, that every pilot from the Wright Brothers to Charles Lindbergh to Chuck Yeager to Neil Armstrong began their initial flight training using VFR -- by looking at the scenery. So quality of scenery is important, particularly in VFR simulation.

Remember just a few years ago, before v2020, when Prepar3D was the serious sim used by com/gov/mil institutions for IRL training? And of course, it remains so...

P3Ds VFR scenery was and is relatively horrendous (well, I haven't yet seen the improvements in v6...) and somehow the pros aren't dying left and right, even the fledglings going thru the US mil's Pilot Next program.

In re what's really important for dead reckoning & pilotage, which is major geographic and anthro-geographic features, I've never had an issue getting around in any of the sims. Maybe it's because I'm so old I had to learn not to die using a paper chart on my knee! 🤣

e.g.: paper charts at this detail level were the highest quality "scenery" i had to use for VFR training: https://skyvector.com/

Edited December 29, 2023 by UrgentSiesta
e.g.

[David Mills 4,774]

6 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Remember just a few years ago, before v2020, when Prepar3D was the serious sim used by com/gov/mil institutions for IRL training? And of course, it remains so...

And the IRS continues to use computer systems that are 50 years old.

[Franz007 586]

2 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Why are you comparing x-plane.org traffic to Avsim MSFS forum traffic? The main forum for XP users is x-plane.org simce that is where thr majority of XP users go. The main forum for MSFS is not the Avsim MSFS forum. The main forum for MSFS is forums.flightsimulator.com.  If you are comparimg traffic, you should compare x-plane.org to forums.flightsimulator.com.

The Avsim MSFS forum traffic is dwarfed by forums.flightsimulator.com. Avsim MSFS forum traffic does not even come close to forums.flightsimulator.com. Compare Avsim MSFS forum traffic to Avsim XP forum traffic. If you want to compare x-plane.org forum traffic, compare that to forums.flightsimulator.com.

That was actually exactly my point. I guess that the main forum for MSFS-users must be the official forum, exactly as you mentioned. That’s why i was wondering why the 500k on the avsim-forum was seen as a great achievement. That was my only remark but Krakin maintainned that these numbers were impressive.

[abrams_tank 7,477]

8 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

That was actually exactly my point. I guess that the main forum for MSFS-users must be the official forum, exactly as you mentioned. That’s why i was wondering why the 500k on the avsim-forum was seen as a great achievement. That was my only remark but Krakin maintainned that these numbers were impressive.

Because with respect to Avsim forums only, 500K posts is a huge achievement in Avsim. The only other forum with more posts than the MSFS forum at Avsim is the FSX forum. And if the admins at Avsim do not breakup MSFS 2020 and MSFS 2024 into different forums, the MSFS forum is on track to exceed the FSX forum in posts. And the 500K posts of the MSFS forum happened in 3 years.

The 500K posts is impressive, witn respect to Avsim only.

Edited December 29, 2023 by abrams_tank

[Franz007 586]

4 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Because with respect to Avsim forums only, 500K posts is a huge achievement in Avsim. The only other forum with more posts than the MSFS forum at Avsim is the FSX forum. And if the admins at Avsim do not breakup MSFS 2020 and MSFS 2024 into different forums, the MSFS forum is on track to exceed the FSX forum in posts. And the 500K posts of the MSFS forum happened in 3 years.

The 500K posts is impressive, witn respect to Avsim only.

Thanks. At least you were able to explain that clearly and straight to the point, exactly how I would have expected 👍

[Christopher Low 5,400]

Can I please ask a moderator to blow the whistle, so that all the children know that play time is over?

[snglecoil 1,829]

2 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

Can I please ask a moderator to blow the whistle, so that all the children know that play time is over?

Awww…though flirting at the precipice few times, this thread has actually seen some reasonable discussion avoiding the usual descent into the abyss. 

[jarmstro 2,405]

Back on subject I'm really quite surprised that there is no valid competition to the Navigraph/SimBrief combination. It's ridiculously expensive when you think about it.

[Merawen 53]

32 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Back on subject I'm really quite surprised that there is no valid competition to the Navigraph/SimBrief combination. It's ridiculously expensive when you think about it.

Ridiculously Expensive?

I can’t believe someone said that.

It’s cheaper than a bic Mac menu.

It saves a lot of time, has many quality of life features in the app, and gets more and more features. 

When have you last time used their App/Website?

They have done a lot updates to it on a regulary basis.

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Merawen

[jcomm 6,020]

27 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Back on subject I'm really quite surprised that there is no valid competition to the Navigraph/SimBrief combination. It's ridiculously expensive when you think about it.

Indeed !

I wonder how users will react when a flight simulator goes subscription-based ... probably for the same price.

I strive to continue to purchase monthly subscriptions, trying to think that there will be months of no practical use, but then, for this or that reason I always have ended up buying again and again... 

My preferred ATC / AI traffic injector solution, which I use in P3D and MFS - FSHUD - has the additional limitation of requiring an active Navigraph subscription in order to provide up-2-date navdata 😕 which will otherwise revert to somewhere around 2011 ...

[jarmstro 2,405]

8 minutes ago, Merawen said:

Ridiculously Expensive?

I can’t believe someone said that.

Its by leaps and bounds the most expensive addon (including even the sims themselves) I have ever bought. Full stop.

[Zangoose 1,639]

Probably because you have to pay someone for the actual nav data and also the charts. Navigraph will have fees to pay.

Aerosoft have or did have (I have no idea if it’s still around) an alternative nav data and chart subscription service.

I would say navigraph is worth the money though considering how much I use it on each flight. 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Zangoose

[simbol 5,832]

5 hours ago, jarmstro said:

Back on subject I'm really quite surprised that there is no valid competition to the Navigraph/SimBrief combination. It's ridiculously expensive when you think about it.

But SimBrief is free...

Navigraph is what requires subscription.

R.

[jarmstro 2,405]

41 minutes ago, simbol said:

But SimBrief is free...

Navigraph is what requires subscription.

R.

True. Although without Navigraph your Data will be out of date so SimBrief   may throw out rubbish. They are basically twinned together now. Same company. Mind you, you are right. It's only SimBrief that is required for practically all new planes. I wonder if they might start charging for it?

EDIT. In fact I hope they do start charging to use SimBrief if you don't have a Navigraph subscription because I'm now subsidising those who don't,  in effect.

Edited December 30, 2023 by jarmstro