7 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

it seemed like flight simulation for the home market was falling behind the available technology.  There was a lot of new technology out there that could have enhanced flight simulation during those 10 years, but the technology was not being used for flight simulation (probably because of the cost). Finally MSFS comes in after 10 years, and the MSFS team shows us what flight simulation can look like when the latest technology is applied to it.

Spot on.

It is undeniably true that the established sims had gotten complacent before the rebirth of MS FS.

MS, Asobo, et al, not only kicked the legs out from under the industry, but they've maintained a blistering pace of improvement and innovation since then. The truth of it can be seen in the (shocking) amount of negativity generated by the announcement of v2024 - from MSFS'ers themselves!!!

In any case, I'm glad for it, and I'm glad to see the across the board improvements in the other sims I use as well. MSFS' rising tide has lifted all boats.

5 hours ago, GoranM said:

X-Plane isn't going anywhere.  Austin and his staff have actually said they get more motivated to keep pushing it forward when they read or hear about the X-Plane bashing.  Not to mention Laminar is a private company owned by 1 person.  Austin Meyer.  MSFS is ultimately owned by shareholders.  And if it goes into the red... 🙄

Anyway, let's not think about that.  I'm sure MSFS will keep going for many more years.

I sure hope that XP isn't going away. It is an excellent sim with lots of great add-ons, and if it went away it would make a de-facto monopoly for MSFS (as, sadly, P3D seems increasingly irrelevant due to a painful lack of 3rd party support). Even if @GoranM was to release his stuff for MSFS it wouldn't get me to ditch XP. I will probably never do that and keep buying for both sims. 

At one point in time I was probably one of those territorial ones, arguing about one specific sim (feel free to peruse my history here at avsim). Life simply is too short to bicker about such things. Guys. Come on. We will never settle the debate of the ultimate sim of sims. Just enjoy what you like. 

30 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

MS, Asobo, et al, not only kicked the legs out from under the industry, but they've maintained a blistering pace of improvement and innovation since then

The evolution of MSFS from 2020-to january 2024 is remarkable in itself - and quite frankly unprecedented.
History is nice and all, but looking ahead, the roadmap of airliners alone (excluding GA, bizjets etc) is very exciting as well

• A220 (synaptic)
• A300b4 (Just Flight)
• A319/321 (Fenix)
• A330 (AS)
• A350 (ini)
• A380 (FBW+ini)
• B737 Max (pmdg)
• B747 (pmdg)
• B757 (bluebird)
• B767 (bluebird)
• B777 (pmdg)
• DC/KC-10 (Aerodynamics)
• F100 (JF)
• MD-11 (tfdi)

In other words, Heavy iron MSFS users will have more than enough to deal with, even if some projects gets cancelled.
 

29 minutes ago, SAS443 said:

The evolution of MSFS from 2020-to january 2024 is remarkable in itself - and quite frankly unprecedented.
History is nice and all, but looking ahead, the roadmap of airliners alone (excluding GA, bizjets etc) is very exciting as well

• A220 (synaptic)
• A300b4 (Just Flight)
• A319/321 (Fenix)
• A330 (AS)
• A350 (ini)
• A380 (FBW+ini)
• B737 Max (pmdg)
• B747 (pmdg)
• B757 (bluebird)
• B767 (bluebird)
• B777 (pmdg)
• DC/KC-10 (Aerodynamics)
• F100 (JF)
• MD-11 (tfdi)

In other words, Heavy iron MSFS users will have more than enough to deal with, even if some projects gets cancelled.
 

Yup, absolutely agree. The pipeline of add-ons coming for MSFS is just staggering. There will be a lot of new add-ons coming for MSFS in the next few years, and it's definitely a nice perk for MSFS users.

19 hours ago, Krakin said:

I bet you some people wouldn't laugh if Austin said XP12 was about to get a gazillion pebbles. Laugh on lol.

Don't worry, he will NEVER say that. Why? Because XP 12 HAS already pebbles. And in addition to that, correct water physics, unlike ... but don't let's even start that. However LR simply doesn't make such a marketing gibberish about it, they implement it. So, is it safe to say XP 12 is ahead of the competition? 😛
Unless MSFS 2024 gets 3D pebbles. Then I wouldn't even fly any more, but only go for a walk along rivers to admire these 3D pebbles 😁.

Edited January 3, 20242 yr by flying_carpet

1 hour ago, flying_carpet said:

...but only go for a walk along rivers to admire these 3D pebbles

That sounds great! You have a relaxing year ahead 😁

3 hours ago, flying_carpet said:

Don't worry, he will NEVER say that. Why? Because XP 12 HAS already pebbles. And in addition to that, correct water physics, unlike ... but don't let's even start that. However LR simply doesn't make such a marketing gibberish about it, they implement it. So, is it safe to say XP 12 is ahead of the competition? 😛
Unless MSFS 2024 gets 3D pebbles. Then I wouldn't even fly any more, but only go for a walk along rivers to admire these 3D pebbles 😁.

 

So Jorg gets interviewed by a Swedish gaming magazine about the Sweden world update, and then while staying on this topic of world graphics when asked to reveal a bit more about MSFS 2024, he said the below to give a specific example of the level of topographic detail they're aiming for in the next rev of the sim.. which of course you try to twist as unimplemented "marketing gibberish" and focus on the "pebbles" part 🙄 How very predictable of you. And oh, he's actually talking about 3D objects being placed there by the AI based on its analysis of the topography of the terrain and photogrammetry.

 

Google chrome translation of Swedish interview:

... For Flight Simulator 2024, we also have tons of really cool topographic improvements that we'll be showing off shortly. That game is a very big step forward graphically. Many will be shocked, I think.

Q: Tell me more!
A: Haha, I shouldn't... Not right now anyway. The idea is to wait a bit on that but we can say this, I recently played Forza Horizon 5 and was blown away by how incredibly beautiful it is, even if you stop the car and study details on the ground. So Nice and Detailed We aim to make the 2024 game so nice with a different kind of detail and photo-realistic accuracy in terms of topography and more. I flew over a patch of forest in Flight Simulator 2024 the other day and chose to land in a place where it was possible to study in detail thousands of rocks underwater in a stream, for example.

Edited January 3, 20242 yr by lwt1971

3 hours ago, flying_carpet said:

Don't worry, he will NEVER say that. Why? Because XP 12 HAS already pebbles. And in addition to that, correct water physics, unlike ... but don't let's even start that. However LR simply doesn't make such a marketing gibberish about it, they implement it. So, is it safe to say XP 12 is ahead of the competition? 😛
Unless MSFS 2024 gets 3D pebbles. Then I wouldn't even fly any more, but only go for a walk along rivers to admire these 3D pebbles 😁.

/snip

Is the screenshot of a flat beach texture supposed to show us something? Did you mean to upload something else? 

3 hours ago, flying_carpet said:

Um, Jorg wasn't talking about a flat image of rocks. That has been possible for years. Also, is that picture even showing default scenery? If it is something like Ortho4XP, you should disclose that because Austin would definitely have a good reason not to talk about it........

4 hours ago, flying_carpet said:

And in addition to that, correct water physics

I love correct water physics.
it allows us to really do crazy stuff like balancing the wingtip like this and defy gravity altogether.

You see, XP12 really, really wants to flip you around the roll axis, and when that behavior meets the sea bed, the cracks in the physics start to show.
Obviously, this is not correct water physics. But we can agree it's better than MSFS at least .

16 minutes ago, SAS443 said:

But we can agree it's better than MSFS at least .

Yup, that's for sure. When the question was put to Jorg about improved water physics in 2024, he said they needed to keep some secrets for later. I do hope that means they do have something to show and not that he got caught off guard and has nothing lol.

2 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

 

So Jorg gets interviewed by a Swedish gaming magazine about the Sweden world update, and then while staying on this topic of world graphics when asked to reveal a bit more about MSFS 2024, he said the below to give a specific example of the level of topographic detail they're aiming for in the next rev of the sim.. which of course you try to twist as unimplemented "marketing gibberish" and focus on the "pebbles" part 🙄 How very predictable of you. And oh, he's actually talking about 3D objects being placed there by the AI based on its analysis of the topography of the terrain and photogrammetry.

 

Google chrome translation of Swedish interview:

... For Flight Simulator 2024, we also have tons of really cool topographic improvements that we'll be showing off shortly. That game is a very big step forward graphically. Many will be shocked, I think.

Q: Tell me more!
A: Haha, I shouldn't... Not right now anyway. The idea is to wait a bit on that but we can say this, I recently played Forza Horizon 5 and was blown away by how incredibly beautiful it is, even if you stop the car and study details on the ground. So Nice and Detailed We aim to make the 2024 game so nice with a different kind of detail and photo-realistic accuracy in terms of topography and more. I flew over a patch of forest in Flight Simulator 2024 the other day and chose to land in a place where it was possible to study in detail thousands of rocks underwater in a stream, for example.

This has nothing to do with AI placing any pebbles.

Tessellated materials work by subdividing the mesh to smaller pixel size parts then the new geometry gets displaced based on a greyacale height map (i.e. flat high-freq image).

The only thing AI does is try to apply the right materials to right kind of surfaces, probably with less accuracy than artist driven masks.

Honestly, nothing that can't be done with some quality normal maps.

But yeah a cool feature indeed.

19 minutes ago, SAS443 said:

it allows us to really do crazy stuff like balancing the wingtip like this and defy gravity altogether.

What is this? The wing looks like outside of the water but the half of the fuselage looks like submerged. Transparency is also about physics and this water certainly is dead wrong in that regard. Thanks, MSFS can do that better!

1 minute ago, Inu said:

probably with less accuracy than artist driven masks.

That is certainly true, it is just by the time artists would have covered the whole globe, AI is already modelling the world on atomic levels!😉

In other words, on a global scale, the choice is either somewhat reduced accuracy by AI or nothing at all.

27 minutes ago, SAS443 said:

I love correct water physics.
it allows us to really do crazy stuff like balancing the wingtip like this and defy gravity altogether.

 

You see, XP12 really, really wants to flip you around the roll axis, and when that behavior meets the sea bed, the cracks in the physics start to show.
Obviously, this is not correct water physics. But we can agree it's better than MSFS at least .

🤣