I love a study level sim aircraft, even if these days I am less of a study level studier.

As a retired pilot from the airlines I thought I would try to step into something really different.  Well, this aircraft is certainly challenging.  I had to watch a lot of videos on YouTube just to get it set up and running.  It was challenging just to get it into the air, and I was (and still am) often frustrated.

Now, after a couple of months of trying to learn it, I find it is still a struggle, absent formal training.   I find that I much enjoy messing with it, and takeoffs and landings are not terribly difficult.  It can be really fun to take around the sky and into smaller airports.

What do I not like?  That's easy to answer at my untrained level.  The ATS, auto-throttle system seems quite clunky and unintuitive.  If you get the steps right to arm it up, it usually works without issues.  If it should unexpectedly fail on you?  Good luck getting it re-engaged.  Here, they really need to put in a system more like an airliner.  In the mainline jets, the A/T is just a little paddle switch, arm it and forget about it, it works perfectly every time.  Not so in the Challenger.

The other system I really struggle with is the VNAV.  Again, without the formal training, VNAV seems like an afterthought in the Challenger.  It would rather fly around using the older, less precision V/S inputs.  When I have a STAR in the FMS with lots of crossing restrictions, I never am quite sure what the 650 in VNAV will do.  Sometimes it figures a TOD point that is a couple of hundred miles from the first step down.  What is it thinking?  Other times, with no discontinuities (all the dots connected) to the runway, it will make the first restriction, perhaps even the second one, and then just sign off.  I have to come in with V/S to try to salvage the arrival.  Does the real airplane do this??  Hard to imagine that being the case.  For me at present, the Challenger VNAV has all the sophistication of a 90s era turboprop.  The 737 VNAV makes every crossing restriction, every time.  You don't even have to pay much attention to it.  Both jets may require some speed brake.

Hopefully I will eventually get the hang of this cute and interesting airplane.

Hello

The HotStart Challenger is most complex aircraft simulation ever coded on any plateform so far by far (I still can't understand why so many people don't realize this), so rest assured these behaviors are very close to the real thing. Anyway, the first thing to understand is that the Challenger is no Boeing or Airbus. So you should not except similar behaviors everytime. 

The way the ATS works in the sim is the way the real thing works. Same thing for VNAV wich isn't VNAV as most Airbus/Boeing pilots/simmers understand it : It's a modifier. 

You should join the Hotstart Discord Channel. You'll find many many answers there. 

 

Edited January 11, 20242 yr by Epikk

1 hour ago, Epikk said:

Hello

The HotStart Challenger is most complex aircraft simulation ever coded on any plateform so far by far (I still can't understand why so many people don't realize this), so rest assured these behaviors are very close to the real thing. Anyway, the first thing to understand is that the Challenger is no Boeing or Airbus. So you should not except similar behaviors everytime. 

The way the ATS works in the sim is the way the real thing works. Same thing for VNAV wich isn't VNAV as most Airbus/Boeing pilots/simmers understand it : It's a modifier. 

You should join the Hotstart Discord Channel. You'll find many many answers there. 

 

Agree with Epikk, 

Come join us on the HotStart Discord Channel. You'll find quite a few active CL650 pilots and the developers willing to help you.

Rich Boll

I am also a newbie on the CL650. The thing that is avoiding me the feeling of frustration is the documentation about the Challenger 605 (not the 650, different model but close enough) in the Smartcockpit website.

For example, the pneumatic system. I had to see the actual diagram with the placement of the elements in order to understand the meaning of those 7 buttons regarding the 10th and the 14th stage bleeds, the sense of pressing them in a particular order and why an "open" or a "close" indication in some of them. Without this, a video in a language different for my mother tongue is hard to follow and I find resources like Discord more appropiate for short and specific questions.

I third the recommendation for the HotStart Discord.

As an additional resource (and maybe you've already found these since you mentioned watching lots of YouTube videos), The Ask Victory AJ YT channel is an excellent resource. VictoryAJ is also very active on the HotStart Discord channels.

https://www.youtube.com/@AskVictoryAJ

Here's a video he posted specifically about dealing with the Auto Throttle:

 

 

Is it possible to start on the runway with engines running ready to take off? 

19 minutes ago, Recognition said:

Is it possible to start on the runway with engines running ready to take off? 

Yes.  Go through the checklist to get the engines started.  Taxi to the runway of your choice, and set up a saved state.  

Oh I see, that makes it easier when you only have time for a quick flight. Thanks for the reply.

19 hours ago, arrowspace90 said:

Hopefully I will eventually get the hang of this cute and interesting airplane.

Another resource, this video produce by Foxtrot Alpha Aviation who is a real world pilot for the CL650. This video is the first of 8 chapter where goes through every step (with real world references) in the setting up of this aircraft and every detail from take off to landing. His video's are long no doubt but very informative and a good reference.  Most of the video started tutorials started in X Plane 11 but they apply to X Plane 12 as well. He also covers failures on startup, engine fires, ACARS 'PDC' CPLDC 'DCL', Winter operation, etc. I would sometimes watch some of the full flight where most of the setup is conducted a lot quicker

 

I have been meaning to get back to this gem of an aircraft. Last time I kind of gave up as I couldn't remember how to do it.. will watch the video @BobFS88 posted to see if I can get back on track!

It's surely One of the best addons ever! 

Been on the vence, not that much for the prive but rather because I gear not having the time to properly dedicate to it...

2 hours ago, Swe_Richard said:

will watch the video

I have to rewatch some of them so that I can take notes. lol Well worth it.😊

Edited January 13, 20242 yr by BobFS88

This seems to be a plane that impresses many. Can some please share why? Does it have any extra or unique features? Does it have visual icing?

It's the depth of the simulation and the systems modeling. The aircraft doesn't just take it's position from an X-Plane dataref. It actually simulates the positions of the GPS satellites in the sky and figures out the aircraft's position. And all of the other systems in the aircraft are modeled to the same level of detail. You don't just pop open a settings window and set how much fuel is in the aircraft, you actually request the fuel truck, tell them how much fuel you want, operate the fueling panel to open and close the appropriate tanks and wait for the fuel guy to finish fueling the aircraft (you even have to sign the invoice for the fuel).

And all of the systems have in-depth study windows available where you can see the sub-system operating in real time in order to try to gain a better understanding of how things are working (or not).

And for stupid people like me, there's even virtual a co-pilot who will assist you through the appropriate checklists during all phases of flight (but that can be disabled if you truly want to do everything yourself).

Just play through the playlist of videos posted by Graeme over at Reflected Reality to get a much better idea of just how incredible the CL650 is:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4Kdz8LEFwFknjCuHmysv9FDT0Msve7od

You can skip the 6-hour live stream video they did on the day the aircraft was released and just watch the remaining 9 videos that take you from cold and dark all the way through a full flight.

Edited August 19, 20241 yr by Malaromane

Haven't pull my trigger on this one, the main concern for me is if there is enough docs to come by, so far I see most of you are pushing videos, however that's not my preference.

I have some aircraft that really good but lack of docs really frustrated me, like Tu154 (somehow the vol2 is incomplete left many system unexplained). 720(I have some manual for 707, but no performance data for 720)  Q400(No SOP/NP, and performance data is incomplete), and CRJ7/9 (only got hand on some CRJ200 stuff). Hey, looks like Bombardier really hate to share their docs? TBF all aircraft manual is copyrighted, but it's really easy to found some 737/320 manual laying around online then🙃

All of the aircraft above I can effectively fly them from cold and dark at Point A to secure at point B, but still feels lack something.... for example after I finally dug some old FCOM for A306 from my company's archive, The enjoyment of flying iniA300 have gone up quite some amount.