6 hours ago, francobfort said:

Too afraid that others may agree?

Not even here there was one poster, who agreed with the tone of your post.

You appear to me kind of like the wrong way driver, who hears in radio "caution, there is a wrong way driver" and then says "there is not one, there are hundreds!"

That forum and I are mutually done with each other. I used to be a very regular poster and those days are over. That's all I am gonna say about it. Counterproductive is the word that comes to mind. 

16 hours ago, MarcG said:

they need to be told.

Dude, they're told. Over and over. Every game developer ever since the internet allowed customers to yell at them has been yelled at nearly 24/7. Even the good ones.

Yes, they need to be told. They don't need to be told 24/7, and we don't need to pretend the whole project is a pile of junk because of certain bugs.

The sim is the best consumer sim in history, bar none. The sim needs a lot of work. Both of these things can be true.

 

30 minutes ago, eslader said:

Dude, they're told. Over and over. Every game developer ever since the internet allowed customers to yell at them has been yelled at nearly 24/7. Even the good ones.

Yes, they need to be told. They don't need to be told 24/7, and we don't need to pretend the whole project is a pile of junk because of certain bugs.

The sim is the best consumer sim in history, bar none. The sim needs a lot of work. Both of these things can be true.

 

You could add to that: "the sim is getting a lot of work".
The fact that every niche request is not acted on before the end of the day sets off the 
compaint bandwagon and some of those on it cannot help themselves from posting in 
rude and demanding ways, leading to these 9 pages of "discussion" about a non-issue.
 

My issue is that there are users who regularly troll the forums and don't get much action on them. In the meantime, those who contribute any criticism of such users are shunned and "One Sim. One World. We are all pilots lalala"... while the X-Box users literally can't be told "hey, that's a platform limitation... if you want more, perhaps start using the PC version". Those aren't attacks, those are FACTS. Some stuff just won't work on X-Box and MS is so bent on trying to equalize everything despite all indications of struggle with certain things that they'd rather stick to the company rhetoric than allow reason into discussion. It's the same reason Lossless Scaling isn't allowed to even be mentioned. I get that they are working on the competing iteration of something, but if your product is so much better (when it's done), let it speak for itself. No need to censor the fact that other solutions exist. Let the market sort itself out. I suppose I expected too much from a corporate giant in terms of civility of their discourse. I was given a permanent 86 due to literally "takes up too much staff time to moderate". I agreed with it in the message to Chewy who banned me with a perfect set of parting words from Christopher Hitchens. "Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."

I say, good riddance... to both me and them being in the same space. 

1 hour ago, eslader said:

They don't need to be told 24/7

Yes they do, I still suffer every single flight from bugs THEY introduced in SU7, if they fail to realise in one thread on the official forums that they've made a mistake and need to rectify it then they need to be reminded over and over again until it hits home. But alas the point of this thread is to show that not every constructive post gets through to the team, because of the flagging system and overzealous mods who constantly remove posts & threads, hence why some of us have simply given up. 

Like others I just hope and pray they've learnt lessons with MSFS2024, if its riddled with the same issues then Jorg needs to explain why.

Edited August 23, 20241 yr by MarcG

 

On 8/23/2024 at 1:24 AM, MarcG said:

Yes they do, I still suffer every single flight from bugs THEY introduced in SU7, if they fail to realise in one thread on the official forums that they've made a mistake and need to rectify it then they need to be reminded over and over again until it hits home. But alas the point of this thread is to show that not every constructive post gets through to the team, because of the flagging system and overzealous mods who constantly remove posts & threads, hence why some of us have simply given up. 

Like others I just hope and pray they've learnt lessons with MSFS2024, if its riddled with the same issues then Jorg needs to explain why.

 No, they don't. They're developers, not goldfish. They will remember the first 30,000 times you told them. Telling them again isn't going to suddenly be that one magic time that they actually realize you want something.

 

Well I’m permanently banned over there for being continually destructive to the community according to the message.

Complete hogwash - they just don’t like to be criticised. When I’m buying stuff from their marketplace that doesn’t work and they have the gall to only offer two refunds a year what do they expect?

Anyway it’s a shame because I did like working for the community. I have the game on both pc and Xbox and to allay frustrations I did several months of testing and purchasing of paywares to find the safest products for Xbox users - because of course as we found out, addons were never dev tested by third parties on Xbox as they had no access to the dev kits. Ridiculous.

I also signed up for all their Xbox betas in an attempt to give thorough feedback for Xbox users.

As others have said I’m sure Jorg doesn’t know about any of this and he seems a reasonable chap.

2 hours ago, Ant1975uk said:

As others have said I’m sure Jorg doesn’t know about any of this and he seems a reasonable chap.

Add Seb and Martial on this list. Amazing in how many cases, when during an Q&A a question was finally asked that originated from the community, those three were obviously surprised by the content of the question. Like this still not solved snow coverage bug: the first time the question finally made its way in a Q&A you could clearly see that they were absolutely not aware of this bug. Which is straight forward ridiculous...

4 minutes ago, AnkH said:

Add Seb and Martial on this list. Amazing in how many cases, when during an Q&A a question was finally asked that originated from the community, those three were obviously surprised by the content of the question. Like this still not solved snow coverage bug: the first time the question finally made its way in a Q&A you could clearly see that they were absolutely not aware of this bug. Which is straight forward ridiculous...

Not forgetting the classic "What lightning in clear skies bug?" response. "We read the forums" no, no you don't!

Yeah, not sure who's in charge of allowing moderators on that site. It can be helpful at times but mostly annoying. Especially hearing about some of the above comments regarding censorship. Yikes. Sounds worse than I thought.

Avsim has its own share of childishness. Adults complaining over a hobby. Oi... I digress. Or when people take over a thread discussing other topics so the OP's original idea is taken over by others? Yeah, that's annoying.

I wish the moderators would moderate that a little more often.

On 8/22/2024 at 10:32 PM, BostonJeremy77 said:

those who contribute any criticism of such users are shunned and "One Sim. One World. We are all pilots lalala"...

I CANNOT believe you just did that! That is hilarious. Good to hear from you again. It's been a while.

But yeah, its been a while since I've really used their forums and it seems worse from what I can tell.

Interesting read.

I left the MS forums over a year ago after being "told off" for daring to say that somebody who was complaining about the newly introduced turbulence had nothing of value to offer to the discussion in terms of a comparison to the real world because he wasn't a real world pilot. I also said my opinion had no value for the same reason, none the less my post was hidden and when I complained things escalated until a petty minded moderator stripped me of my trust level. I asked in private what was inaccurate about what I said and the response was that I was saying the individual had no value which was was nonsense, I said nothing of the sort. As Marcus Aurelius said, The opinion of 10,000 men is of no value if none of them know anything about the subject. I left and asked them to suspend the account. I have no time for OTT moderation and a forum where conversation is stifled.  

I have not even been on this forum for a year either having been down the Home Assistant rabbit hole for twelve months and having only just found my way back to the surface. 

I have a look at the MS Forum from time to time and what is apparent is that people, with the exception of Hobanagerik who seems to be able to stick with it, I don't recognise any of the usernames any more, suggesting that people come and go from it with alarming regularity.

In the past 12-18 months the official forum seemed to change in the way it is managed and moderated and in my experience certainly not for the better. I remember shortly after the initial release of 2020, the Community Managers were engaging, understanding and you could have an actual adult conversation with them to get issues raised and problems solved.

Then something changed, the whole dynamic of the forum changed and it's as if there was this level of bias introduced, where if your postings didn't conform with the overall positive narrative, posts started getting flagged for no apparent reason, threads shut down and stopped in their tracks etc. It became increasingly more difficult to report and discuss bugs, because a bug report would be made, you would discuss findings and observations of the bug with other users to help identify trends and reproduce, to then be told to not discuss this bug in the bug report thread but discuss the bug in a different discussion thread and it just became increasingly more difficult to actually raise and discuss issues in any meaningful way. The moderators seem to carry with them this teacher/child mentality you see in schools and the forums very much feel like a play ground most of the time.

The biggest gripe for me though, has always been the lack of consistency in the way they are moderated. I've called moderator staff out and formally reported moderator staff over this sort of targeting, to the point one actually stepped down, but then returned shortly after a bunch of the senior community managers who were actually decent left. Since then it's just not worth posting on there for anything meaningful. 

Edited September 28, 20241 yr by utd4life12