I got about 40 flights now with version 4.2, good FPS, no stutters at all, everything is smooth as silk. I adjusted the settings once, and haven't touched them since. 

What I have noticed with FG, I was capping the fps at 60fps in NVCP (thinking that it is the limit of my system) and MainThread had a lot of spikes, now I set NVCP to 84fps which my system seems to handle but less spikes on the MainThread, so practically a better balance of CPU & GPU. I need to work & test more on this.

6 hours ago, SAS443 said:

12 hours ago, fppilot said:

That statement appears to match my experience as reported late yesterday.  I am fine with taxi out, take off, climb, cruise, and descent until nearing final approach.  Then it turns into a stutterfest for late final, landing, and taxi in. 

Pretty much sums up my experience also.

Final approach is not smooth at all. I am using IFR mode. (9900k /2080ti...which usually holds up stutterless)

Very neat app, maybe not just suitable for my old rig. 🙂

OK, I discovered what may have been affecting me.  Requires some word-smithing perhaps.  Let's see if I can do this....   First recognize we can switch between Windows applications with Alt-Tab.  Whichever app we switch to is called what?  The active app?  The app on top?  What is the correct terminology.

Next, recognize that we can fly MSFS just fine with our flight controls even if MSFS is not the active app, or the one Windows regards as on top.

Next comes the selection box in AutoFPS called "On Top".  That has little if anything to do with what Windows regards as the app on top, or active window.  In the AutoFPS app that box merely means that if selected, it keeps AutoFPS visible, even if MSFS is the app Windows has on top. 

If however AutoFPS is on top in both respects, MSFS will not react to some inputs, such as some mouse actions.  Those may first require Alt-Tab back to MSFS to make it the active app or window.  But MSFS will respond top inputs from flight controls.  So it may not be evident to us when AutoFPS is the active app in Windows.  Especially if we are constantly using Alt-Tab to go back and forth, or if we have that On Top box checked.

Why am I attempting to describe this?  Take a look at these three AutoFPS screens.  In image A, MSFS is the active Windows app and AutoFPS is sitting there underneath so to speak, but visible, because the On Top box is checked.  Note the frame rate, 64.  Note also the FG Active indication.   

Next look at image B.  Note the frame rate and the FG indication.  A and B were captured  two or three minutes apart in today's flight, B first, then A.  In B, AutoFPS is the app Windows considers to be the active app, or to Windows, the app on top.  The On Top box is also checked in the app, but that is not the only reason it is on top in this case.  It is the Windows active app.  Note the effect that has on my MSFS.  Less than half the frame rate as A, and the sim was nowhere near as smooth. 

Then look at C.  AutoFPS is on top in Windows but the "stay visible" On Top box is not checked.  Again, in C the app is the Windows active app.  Image C was captured about three minutes later.  Note again the FPS and FG indications.

Can someone explain the FPS Settling 6s (yellow box) in A?

I believe in my case when I started getting studders when descending on final was that I inadvertenly had AutoFPS on top not only in MSFS, but also in Windows, as the active app. You can see in B and C what that might do.   Today when on final when I made sure it was on top as visible, with the box checked, but that MSFS was the active window on top to Windows.  My frame rates stayed up near what you see in A, and my sim, landing, and roll out were butter smooth.  

Hope I wrote this clearly enough to understand.



Makes me wonder if AutoFPS can be modified so that this does not happen.  Or perhaps to warn us that it is the active app to Windows. Perhaps a conditional different colored border.

Note: My Frame Generation is with an RTX 3080 GPU using the FG mod (dlssg_to_fsr3)  for pre-4 series RTX GPUs.

 

 

Edited March 26, 20242 yr by fppilot

1 hour ago, fppilot said:

Hope I wrote this clearly enough to understand.

Crystal clear and thanks for the detailed explanation. I only check the AutoFPS window every now and then, and when I do, I check "on top" then click on MSFS. Then FG will become active. 

1 hour ago, fppilot said:

Can someone explain the FPS Settling 6s (yellow box) in A?

I was going to attempt to explain this in an awkward way, but then remembered the readme:

Quote

The FPS settling timer runs for up to 20 seconds to allow FPS to settle between pausing/unpausing, auto target FPS calibration, TLOD Min + transitions and VR/PC/FG mode transitions. This allows the FPS to stabilise before engaging automatic functions and should lead to much smaller TLOD changes when seeking the target FPS on such transitions.

 

3 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I got about 40 flights now with version 4.2, good FPS, no stutters at all, everything is smooth as silk. I adjusted the settings once, and haven't touched them since. 

You have set your FPS to a value that you have enough headroom. That is the smart way to do.

Even this App cannot create enough headroom if the hardware is not capable of running the sim smooth when the settings too high.

 

18 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

I only check the AutoFPS window every now and then, and when I do, I check "on top" then click on MSFS. Then FG will become active. 

So do you feel with what I learned that the loss of FG when AutoFPS is the active Windows app is the culrpit in my case of encountering stutters on final, roll out, and taxi?  Or are there any other possible effects from AutoFPS being the active app over MSFS?

Edited March 26, 20242 yr by fppilot

10 minutes ago, fppilot said:

So do you feel with what I learned that the loss of FG when AutoFPS is the active Windows app is the culrpit in my case of encountering stutters on final, roll out, and taxi?  Or are there any other possible effects from AutoFPS being the active app over MSFS?

Most likely, yeah. Perhaps this is the explanation/solution for the performance issues others have reported recently too. Don't think there's anything else going on when MSFS is not in focus. But certainly getting FPS halved is going to have a detrimental effect on performance. Occasionally I forget that MSFS is not in focus, and I get stutters. 

Another thing to note is that whenever MSFS is not in focus, G-Sync will go inactive, causing screen tearing. So no FG and no G-Sync is not a very nice experience...

6 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

But certainly getting FPS halved is going to have a detrimental effect on performance.

Guess the question on that is if it has only been FG capable users that have been affected with the reported stutters on late descent, approach, and post-landing.  FG nearly doubles FR, so loss of FG halves it back?  What is your thought on that? 

Edited March 26, 20242 yr by fppilot

3 minutes ago, fppilot said:

Guess the question on that is if it has only been FG capable users that have been affected with the reported stutters on late descent, approach, and post-landing.  FG nearly doubles FR, so loss of FG halves it back?  What is your thought on that? 

You know, I just thought about this earlier today, as it seems that quite a few of the people reporting stutters are using the FG mod. I guess it's no different with RTX40-series FG though. 

Just watching a video I made of some landings at Skiathos in the Fenix, using VFR mode (yeah I know, I'm a slow learner lol). Although I didn't notice this during the flight, there are micro-stutters on final approach. Not a huge deal, but they're there. So, once again I should have gone with IFR mode. 

If you see 70 with FG on and iit drops to 35 because FG is Off then you  might see small micro stutters but no big stutters. It just looks a little less smooth.

FG doubles your framerate but does not remove stutters. It makes it a little smoother , that’s all. If you are having long frames than FG won’t make them disappear.

 

8 hours ago, fppilot said:

OK, I discovered what may have been affecting me.  Requires some word-smithing perhaps.  Let's see if I can do this....   First recognize we can switch between Windows applications with Alt-Tab.  Whichever app we switch to is called what?  The active app?  The app on top?  What is the correct terminology.

Next, recognize that we can fly MSFS just fine with our flight controls even if MSFS is not the active app, or the one Windows regards as on top.

Next comes the selection box in AutoFPS called "On Top".  That has little if anything to do with what Windows regards as the app on top, or active window.  In the AutoFPS app that box merely means that if selected, it keeps AutoFPS visible, even if MSFS is the app Windows has on top. 

If however AutoFPS is on top in both respects, MSFS will not react to some inputs, such as some mouse actions.  Those may first require Alt-Tab back to MSFS to make it the active app or window.  But MSFS will respond top inputs from flight controls.  So it may not be evident to us when AutoFPS is the active app in Windows.  Especially if we are constantly using Alt-Tab to go back and forth, or if we have that On Top box checked.

Why am I attempting to describe this?  Take a look at these three AutoFPS screens.  In image A, MSFS is the active Windows app and AutoFPS is sitting there underneath so to speak, but visible, because the On Top box is checked.  Note the frame rate, 64.  Note also the FG Active indication.   

Next look at image B.  Note the frame rate and the FG indication.  A and B were captured  two or three minutes apart in today's flight, B first, then A.  In B, AutoFPS is the app Windows considers to be the active app, or to Windows, the app on top.  The On Top box is also checked in the app, but that is not the only reason it is on top in this case.  It is the Windows active app.  Note the effect that has on my MSFS.  Less than half the frame rate as A, and the sim was nowhere near as smooth. 

Then look at C.  AutoFPS is on top in Windows but the "stay visible" On Top box is not checked.  Again, in C the app is the Windows active app.  Image C was captured about three minutes later.  Note again the FPS and FG indications.

Can someone explain the FPS Settling 6s (yellow box) in A?

I believe in my case when I started getting studders when descending on final was that I inadvertenly had AutoFPS on top not only in MSFS, but also in Windows, as the active app. You can see in B and C what that might do.   Today when on final when I made sure it was on top as visible, with the box checked, but that MSFS was the active window on top to Windows.  My frame rates stayed up near what you see in A, and my sim, landing, and roll out were butter smooth.  

Hope I wrote this clearly enough to understand.



Makes me wonder if AutoFPS can be modified so that this does not happen.  Or perhaps to warn us that it is the active app to Windows. Perhaps a conditional different colored border.

Note: My Frame Generation is with an RTX 3080 GPU using the FG mod (dlssg_to_fsr3)  for pre-4 series RTX GPUs.

 

 

As @Cpt_Pietthas already mentioned, having FG become active and inactive due to switching to any window other that MSFS, not just AutoFPS, doubles then halves FPS in MSFS respectively. AutoFPS does take this into account but the very act of FG toggling makes for a moving target for the automation engine, especially in the first few seconds after the switch.

The simplest way to deal with this is to enable Pause when MSFS loses focus, so the automation engine isn't chasing its tail when FG isn't active anyway, and to minimise the number of times you switch away from MSFS, preferably never during critical phases of flight.

13 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

You know, I just thought about this earlier today, as it seems that quite a few of the people reporting stutters are using the FG mod. I guess it's no different with RTX40-series FG though. 

That's right, no different, at least in my experience w/ the FG mod and now the RTX 4090.  Because I constantly go back and forth between main and secondary displays the hit using RTX 40x FG is big, and therefore unacceptable, hence I don't use FG any longer.   Perhaps some day someone will figure out a fix for this problem, and it's a giant problem if you value image stability.  Fortunately 4090 brings a whole lot more than FG to the mix, including the fact that Render Scale of 160 makes voxel-grid visibility in clouds a thing of the past for me.  The unparalleled image sharpness is so sweet and I have exactly zero artifacts of any kind now, no shimmering, no flickering taxiways, so glad to be rid of "FG", the most overrated driver of video card purchasing in ever!  JMO, and we all have our own opinions.

20 minutes ago, Noel said:

so glad to be rid of "FG", the most overrated driver of video card purchasing in ever!

Oh boy Noel, 

That's a brave statement to make here on AVSIM LOL

Prepare for the incoming internet troll attack 🤣

13 minutes ago, RJC68 said:

Oh boy Noel, 

That's a brave statement to make here on AVSIM LOL

Prepare for the incoming internet troll attack 🤣

My only puzzle is how it is people so focused on video quality can cope with these side effects of FG.  I remember when good 'ol IanR said he would get a headache looking at a screen at 30Hz refresh rate, and yet cope with this stuff?  At some point Richard I will be upgrading to 7800X3D so can see what sort of difference it makes for the strobing artifact under certain lighting conditions, the less than stable glass cockpit imagery and especially the 2-screen issue.  I think it may make some difference, but to be 1000% honest:  it will also let me bump up my base rate to say 45 or 46 from 35/36 now.  IMHO by the time you get to 45 w/ zero stuttering, perfect FTV, you don't get enough more going to 60 or even 80 to bother.   The IQ at RS 160 is truly remarkable.

As much as I hate interrupting the FG or no FG discussion… Have anyone got any experience with the latest build in VFR mode?