4 minutes ago, Farlis said:

And furthermore it's probably also somewhere in their contract with Boeing that they can't sell their stuff to anyone else.

I don't think this would be a big issue for PMDG and Microsoft to overcome. It's not like if MSFS 2024 included the PMDG 737 Max for free, that Microsoft and MSFS is an unknown entity that would tarnish Boeing's name and reputation. MSFS already has the Boeing 747 and Microsoft licensed that from Boeing.  So Microsoft and the MSFS team already have a relationship with Boeing. I'm pretty sure if Microsoft and PMDG both approached Boeing and asked Boeing to allow Microsoft to include the PMDG 737 Max in MSFS 2024, Boeing would likely give them the green light, especially since the Boeing 747 is already in MSFS (it doesn't make sense that Boeing would deny the 737 Max in MSFS 2024 if the 747 is already in MSFS 2020 and will probably be in MSFS 2024 as well).

I think the more likely reason is that Jorg probably approached Randazzo already, and Randazzo may have asked for too much money. So Jorg opted to do the 737 Max in house. This is my guess, although it's entirely speculation on my part.

7 hours ago, HiFlyer said:

 So in other words design a sim only for you and like-minded others, and everybody else can go jump off a pier?

Arguments not personal attacks. So, what would be your 1-5 list of priorities if you disagree with mine?

5 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

I think the more likely reason is that Jorg probably approached Randazzo already, and Randazzo may have asked for too much money. So Jorg opted to do the 737 Max in house. This is my guess, although it's entirely speculation on my part.

Or if we indulge into a little speculation: Even for the goal to make the default aircraft more "study level" the PMDG 737 are too hardcore to fit into the default category of base sim aircraft.

Including their Max would raise the bar on fidelity so much that on the one hand people migh get intimidated, and on the other hand suddenly start to expect that all default airliners will bring that level of attention to minute details and complete failure modeling.

Edited June 23, 20241 yr by Farlis

2 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

I am surprised that not much more was said about the flight model, and nothing was said about the ground handling

I believe they did mention that contact with the grass is influencing the behavior on the ground as an example?
ORBX's Holger and team doing the mesh in 2024 too? Maybe the terrain morphing can be brought to a minimum I hope.

16 minutes ago, bvdboomen said:

I believe they did mention that contact with the grass is influencing the behavior on the ground as an example?
 

Was it the contact with the grass, or when the plane flies close to the grass, the grass will react from the air current and wind? I don't think that counts as ground handling because there is no contact with the grass? My memory from the video was the grass being affected when the plane is close to it, because of the wind current, but no actual fixes for friction/contact with the ground.

1 minute ago, abrams_tank said:

My memory from the video was the grass being affected when the plane is close to it, because of the wind current, but no actual fixes for friction/contact with the ground.

I recall something about leaving the runway into the grass being simulated. Jorg said "I crashed a lot".

for all those "but they didn't talk about improving X" ... it's just a 90 min long presentation 5 months before release, are you really expecting them to talk about everything you can come up with during that time?

Looks like MSFS 2024 is going to knock it out the park again. The improvements are stunning, I also think it's a great move to include devs that created some fantastic addons for 2020, are now involved directly.

Seb specifically talked about every surface now having defined characteristics. So gravel, grass, mud, tarmac, etc all have varying physical properties that affect handling.

He gave two examples specifically:

- Bush flying now requires you to scout the type of landing surface you're going to touch down and then make appropriate preparations for how the plane will handle.

- Going from paved surfaces to grass is a huge difference, and running off the runway is definitely not something you want to do.

EDIT: Forgot one major aspect of 2024 - AI (Blackshark?) is now not just populating general buildings from ortho, but surfaces and small landscape features as well. So every surface worldwide has that new surface clarity - if it's a rocky beach in real life, it will be one in the sim. Same with mud, fields, etc.

In terms of CFD, etc - not much there but they did mention wake turbulence and ground effect being a thing.

The person who said it was just a 90 minute presentation is right. We have 5 months to go until release, all of this will be revealed and talked about in more detail.

Edited June 23, 20241 yr by Georgleboui

28 minutes ago, Kerrow42 said:

for all those "but they didn't talk about improving X" ... it's just a 90 min long presentation 5 months before release, are you really expecting them to talk about everything you can come up with during that time?

It’s possible that they didn’t talk more about the flight model because it’s still under development and not as complete as the other features they did talk about. It would be nice if they did talk more about it though because then we have actual verification that work was done to improve this area and it will be a part of the release of MSFS 2024.

For the flight model, I honestly think that they have something more advanced in the works, because they hired Petrovich. However, maybe the work that Petrovich is doing won’t make the release for MSFS 2024 on November 19th, and will appear in a subsequent Sim Update.

I would be surprised if there isn’t much improvement on the flight model in the next few years, given that Petrovich has been there for almost  2 years now?

Edited June 23, 20241 yr by abrams_tank

7 minutes ago, Georgleboui said:

Seb specifically talked about every surface now having defined characteristics. So gravel, grass, mud, tarmac, etc all have varying physical properties that affect handling.

He gave two examples specifically:

- Bush flying now requires you to scout the type of landing surface you're going to touch down and then make appropriate preparations for how the plane will handle.

- Going from paved surfaces to grass is a huge difference, and running off the runway is definitely not something you want to do.

 

Oh cool. I’ll have to go over this part of the video then. I do hope that it’s a new ground handling engine they have for MSFS 2024.

8 hours ago, Tuskin38 said:

people on reddit are saying the charts looked to be LIDO or LIDO based

I on avsim am saying the same 🤣 They are not Jeppesen.

8 hours ago, 109Sqn said:

I likely won't be a day one buyer ...... it really will be a major upgrade on an already fantastic simulator.

??? how does that fit together.  the hardest part for me will be the wait til November 19.

On Friday there was a 5hrs stream with all the different presentstions. For Saturday all I can find is the MSFS presentation. Am I missing something or is that all there was on Saturday 

6 hours ago, sd_flyer said:

Basically FS2024 will bring purpose of flying!  For those of us who started with Sublogic ATP and still got excited looking a vector graphics back then,  what MSFS is showcasing is simply mind blowing! As we already know FS2024 developing won't stop there!

 

 

6 hours ago, sd_flyer said:

The whole experience was magical! 

This is NOT knocking the experience you're describing, @sd_flyer, and I know it's the same for a lot of the folk on here.

But it is also the case that this sort of thing is precisely the reason I never could be bothered with flight sims until the much derided MS Flight. Graphics capability didn't really begin to shine for me until P3D and Orbx got going, and now MSFS has knocked everything else out of the water. And 2024 looks like taking it even further. Sure, it's a flight simulator, but you're not just flying in an enviroment (the sky / air), but also over one - the world below.

And I really believe that a large proportion of those apparent 15m users are attracted not by the accuracy of the flight model or the wind shear factors but more by the accuracy and presentation of that world below. Of course, I can't prove that any more than the cockpit guys can prove their own point of view. But proving anything like that doesn't matter. As long as MaSobo are convinced, and I assume they are otherwise why would they perservere with all this amazing work, then both our user camps will continue to get what we want from this.

Part of me thinks MSFS2020 is so good right now, how could it get any better? But it will. And I'm really looking forward to it. Not for the career stuff, not for the weather, but for the ever improving digital twin.

(as an aside, I don't really understand how anybody can be seriously dissatisfied with MSFS. You've got the whole planet, beautifully rendered, to explore and dozens of incredible aircraft, at least some of which are apparently accurate enough for the serious pilot types, to use to do it with. What's not to like?)

A glorious flight sim future awaits - in fact, it's mostly here already.

Edited June 23, 20241 yr by andy1252
correcting "auto-correction"!