Hi,

This IS NOT a topic to bash one or the other (please) as they’re both great addons. I’ve spent the day flying the A300 on a route I fly often (UK to Paphos, Cyprus and back).
 

The A300 really “feels” like a big aircraft, especially evident on the ground but also when hand flying - and landing back into my base with a 10knot crosswind, it felt great in the flare as I took the crab away with my rudder pedals. 

I understand that the A300 perhaps uses some of the newer tech available in MSFS, and if so what do people think the chances of this coming to the PMDG 737 etc? 
 

Having bought the A300 on sale this weekend I’ll certainly be spending a lot more time flying it….and it flew the RNAV transition onto the ILS down in Paphos like a dream (none of the IRL GPS jamming issues in the sim!).

 

Ian.

You're not really comparing apples to apples here with the A300 vs the 737.

The A300 feels like a big aeroplane because it IS a big, widebody, aeroplane. It carries a lot more momentum than the narrow body 737.

Real pilots of the 737 have commented favourably on the handling of the PMDG model, within the constraints of a desktop PC platform.

Perhaps I didn’t word it well, but ground handling and behaviour in ground effect on landing both just feel better - and I appreciate the 737 is far lighter. 

3 hours ago, ianb2469 said:

Perhaps I didn’t word it well, but ground handling and behaviour in ground effect on landing both just feel better - and I appreciate the 737 is far lighter. 

Oh that's very likely because the A300 makes use of the improved ground physics that came in MSFS SU15, which is actually a partial backport of the fuller ground physics/handling revamp coming in MSFS 20204.

Devs need to implement values for new parameters in the FM for their specific aircraft to enable the new ground physics in MSFS 2020. PMDG have said they'll look into adopting the new ground handling in a future updates for both the 777 and 737.
 

Edited July 21, 20241 yr by lwt1971

iniBuilds is the only dev fully embracing the use of the CFD for airliners so I'm not surprised you think the A300 feel more convincing in flight.

Sorry to go there but lets cut trough the nonsense and (not trying to go off topic) we need X-Plane or DCS type ground handling and physics in MSFS and all the planes from G.A. to Heavy Airliners would seem to feel (LOOK) more realistic.

Edited July 22, 20241 yr by JBDB-MD80

12 hours ago, JBDB-MD80 said:

Sorry to go there but lets cut trough the nonsense and (not trying to go off topic) we need X-Plane or DCS type ground handling and physics in MSFS and all the planes from G.A. to Heavy Airliners would seem to feel (LOOK) more realistic.

Sorry, what "nonsense" is there to cut through here? The ground handling has been addressed in MSFS 2020 SU15, and is even more fully reworked in MSFS 2024. That doesn't necessarily mean all aircraft can inherit this automatically in MSFS 2020, since they all have been developed and fine-tuned to work with the older system.. so that's why Asobo provided additional parameters in the FM for aircraft devs to adopt, if they so choose to.

I'd say the iniBuilds A300 has made good use of it, as they demonstrated here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4cxNccH66U&t=1318s ... Fenix also have, and some other birds. PMDG will adopt it soon.

----------

And @Krakin agreed re: iniBuilds fully embracing the CFD tech.. some others like Black Square (Duke, TBM 850), FSReborn etc also did and they have some stellar flight models. I'm guessing they will also be able to more readily take advantage of the improvements coming in MSFS 2024 for much more flexible and detailed aircraft surfaces/wings geometry setup & modelling (something that is important for CFD to work best).
 

Edited July 22, 20241 yr by lwt1971

I’m a type rated 737 pilot in the US with a couple thousand hours on the jet.  The PMDG 737 does fly and handle quite well for being on your home computer. There’s also convincing feel and behavior when flying using Flaps 40 compared to Flaps 30. 
 

When in the flare, and when ground effect becomes evident, the PMDG does a decent job of feeling like the real jet. Interestingly enough, when flying the real thing, I have been taken by surprise at how close it feels to flying at home in the PMDG. My only gripe is the initial feel of rotating. PMDG  737 feel stuck to the ground and the control movements don’t feel as smooth as the real jet to start the rotation. In the real jet you have very precise control of the rotation. In my opinion, this is not the case with the pmdg 737. Their 777 feels much kuch more convincing.

 

Ive flown the 737,757 and 767. The 767 feels much lighter on the controls than the 737 in my opinion. The 767 feels like a far dump truck. Long story short, just because an airplane is bigger doesn’t necessarily mean it will feel bigger. Food for thought.

2 hours ago, ahsmatt7 said:

I’m a type rated 737 pilot in the US with a couple thousand hours on the jet.  The PMDG 737 does fly and handle quite well for being on your home computer. There’s also convincing feel and behavior when flying using Flaps 40 compared to Flaps 30. 
 

 

Thanks for your insight ahsmatt7. Having only flown light aircraft in real life, and likely 10s of thousands of sim hours in various larger aircraft, it is of course hard to know!  All I know is the A300 ‘feels’ more rounded overall in those areas, but I will of course take your word for it re the 737. 
 

Out of interest, do you use the Thrustmaster Boeing yoke and if so have you changed much in terms of sensitivity etc to make it feel so close to the real thing? Just so I know I’m in the right place settings wise too.  Thank you again. 

4 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

re: iniBuilds fully embracing the CFD tech.. some others like Black Square (Duke, TBM 850), FSReborn etc also did and they have some stellar flight models.

Black Square has only embraced a very small percentage of CFD's abilities, in contrast to iniBuilds, FSR and others. And that has shown up in the reviews, as well. And it's referenced in the release notes, as well.

The addons fly decently enough, but it's their systems - by far - that are the star of the Black Square show (and they are very well developed, indeed).

So, I've avoided them since the beginning since my interests are largely inverse to Black Square's value prop: I care a LOT more about flight model than systems.

So far my reference addon remains A2A's Comanche (which also includes stellar systems). The closer a given addon handles to that, the more I enjoy it (particularly in MSFS' environmental wonderland. 🙂

I'm practically dying for an all around Hi Fi turboprop in MSFS that's as good as AFL's King Air 350 in XP. Right now, i'm still feeling out BlackBird nee MilViz's new T-6A Texan II Advanced (with its external flight model). So far, so good, but I've only just a couple hours in it, so too early to tell.

I think even multi-million dollar Level D sims (and I’ve flown a few - 737-400/A320/A330) struggle with the physics of the transition between the ground and the air. As I understand it, the real thing is usually easier to fly than the sim due to the sensory feedback of it actually moving in three dimensions. The simulator moves of course, but a lot of the movement is designed to trick your senses. 

That said, the last decent long session I got in the real sim was an A320 Neo and it was astonishingly similar to flying the Fenix on a decent home setup. Everything felt so familiar, with only stuff like the safety harness being a bit of head scratcher as how to wear it is obviously not a thing in the desktop sim! 
 

The 777 feels very nice to taxi around whereas I find most others of the payware jets (737/Fenix) a bit squirrelly. MSFS has a way to go in this area but anyone who used X-Plane remembers how anything more than a 4 knot cross wind would have you in the grass. 

4 hours ago, ahsmatt7 said:

I’m a type rated 737 pilot in the US with a couple thousand hours on the jet.  The PMDG 737 does fly and handle quite well for being on your home computer. There’s also convincing feel and behavior when flying using Flaps 40 compared to Flaps 30. 
 

When in the flare, and when ground effect becomes evident, the PMDG does a decent job of feeling like the real jet. Interestingly enough, when flying the real thing, I have been taken by surprise at how close it feels to flying at home in the PMDG. My only gripe is the initial feel of rotating. PMDG  737 feel stuck to the ground and the control movements don’t feel as smooth as the real jet to start the rotation. In the real jet you have very precise control of the rotation. In my opinion, this is not the case with the pmdg 737. Their 777 feels much kuch more convincing.

 

Ive flown the 737,757 and 767. The 767 feels much lighter on the controls than the 737 in my opinion. The 767 feels like a far dump truck. Long story short, just because an airplane is bigger doesn’t necessarily mean it will feel bigger. Food for thought.

The "experts" on this forum probably don't appreciate comments  by real airline pilots, when they know better, I mean don't hours flying paper airplanes count for something? . 😉 

I wouldn’t personally call myself an expert although in flightsim terms I probably am, but I really like the real airline pilots views, especially the above, as it validates if our addons are as good as they say they are! 

3 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

The "experts" on this forum probably don't appreciate comments  by real airline pilots, when they know better, I mean don't hours flying paper airplanes count for something? . 😉 

We've had real pilots disagree with each other on here too.

Edited July 22, 20241 yr by Tuskin38

5 hours ago, ianb2469 said:

Thanks for your insight ahsmatt7. Having only flown light aircraft in real life, and likely 10s of thousands of sim hours in various larger aircraft, it is of course hard to know!  All I know is the A300 ‘feels’ more rounded overall in those areas, but I will of course take your word for it re the 737. 
 

Out of interest, do you use the Thrustmaster Boeing yoke and if so have you changed much in terms of sensitivity etc to make it feel so close to the real thing? Just so I know I’m in the right place settings wise too.  Thank you again. 

Absolutely! Glad to offer insight where it’s applicable. One can discern the difference between developers who take the time to pay attention to details when coding the flight dynamics. It sounds like the A300 is fairly well coded. I unfortunately don’t have the add on myself. 
 

Have you purchased the PMDG 777? So far this is one of the best add ons I’ve flown for msfs to date to give a convincing experience flying an airliner. I say this in terms of the four forces of flight, pitch, power and the changes in performance regarding these things. For example, think of thrust changes on approach and the associated sink or ballooning when making too large of thrust changes. Or, how it’s fairly difficult to slow these jets down in descent. 
 

I have the thrustmaster HOTAS warthog. It’s not a yoke, but it does give me the same resistance I can best expect with home hardware. What are your thoughts on said Boeing yoke? 
 

I may give the A300 a try. Another user on this thread is pretty adamant about it being the best add on ever for its price point. May have to take them up on that. 
 

Any other questions  you have, feel free to ask!