21 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

No they are separate sims and can co-exist. MS/Asobo plans to support MSFS 2020 at least for a few more years if not longer. And MSFS 2020 will also continue to get fixes and some improvements even (backported from 2024)
 

I wonder how that will work. FS2024 has a Community folder, just like FS2020, What happens if you install the new Sim on the same Drive, you can't have two of those Community folders with the same name?

1 minute ago, Tailwinds said:

I wonder how that will work. FS2024 has a Community folder, just like FS2020, What happens if you install the new Sim on the same Drive, you can't have two of those Community folders with the same name?

Yes you can for example;
C:\MSFS2020\Packages\Community
C:|MSFS2024\Packages\Community

That's how I view it if I understand your query correctly 🙂

It is a bit disappointing about the screen-space reflections for sure, but for me the biggest disappointment is the pop-in scenery is still as bad. 

You can see it in the preview videos and it looks just as bad as 2020.  It is especially disappointing when they have improved the landscape to the degree it looks absolutely stunning - but then it still pops in, ruining the effect.  Strange.

17 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

but for me the biggest disappointment is the pop-in scenery is still as bad. 

Yes, I was surprised at how much I say of this on the preview videos, nearly everyone I watched had scenery popping in. I am hoping this is just the result of many people flying at ultra settings - to show off what the sim can look like -- in a room, as described in the FS Elite article, with 20 other machines on the same connection.

31 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

It is especially disappointing when they have improved the landscape to the degree it looks absolutely stunning - but then it still pops in, ruining the effect.  Strange.

Would it be less strange if they sacrificed some other element in order to retain excellent frame rate?  If so, what would you want them to sacrifice?  Maybe reduce some of that 'stunning'?  Fortunately I don't find this anywhere near as visually troublesome as what I get with DLSS FG, so I don't use it.

5 minutes ago, Noel said:

Would it be less strange if they sacrificed some other element in order to retain excellent frame rate?  If so, what would you want them to sacrifice?  Maybe reduce some of that 'stunning'?  Fortunately I don't find this anywhere near as visually troublesome as what I get with DLSS FG, so I don't use it.

Well we are all different, and have different thresholds to what we find distracting.  This one I really don't like, as your eyes are naturally drawn to the beautiful new scenery, then bam, it pops in / morphs right in front of your eyes.

Also, they might not need to sacrifice anything.  Orbx had a system that seemed to reduce this morphing / popping in some of their scenery, New Zealand, which I had, seemed better. 
Orbx even talked about how they achieved this compared to Asobo, with little or zero performance impact.  So don't you think they should even look at improving it?
To me, trying to prevent this morphing / pop-in should come first, otherwise you just have the same pop-in with just a better texture when it pops in.  I don't follow the logic.

As a note, I don't use any FG either as I find the artifacts distracting also.  I have just bought the Lossless Scaling app from Steam, but I haven't tried it yet.

3 hours ago, MarcG said:

Who said I was staring at the window frames!? It's there in your peripheral vision in certain scenarios as described already. Have you used VR? probably not judging by your overzealous comment! What an immersion breaker is to one person might not be to others, there's plenty in MSFS2020 and yet I continue to thoroughly enjoy it, same as I see immersion breaking issues in racing sims but I still thoroughly enjoy them. So get some perspective and accept that just because you don't see it as immersion breaking, others might yeah!?

Yes, I use VR in sim racing, less so in MSFS because I want to see things outside the sim. 

Maybe it is you using the term 'immersion breaking' that I am misunderstanding, because I wouldn't be using a product that breaks my immersion.

The only real question that comes to mind when I see a thread like this is:

Isn't it really stressful and tiring to have such a negative and nitpicky outlook on good things? 

13 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

Yes, I use VR in sim racing, less so in MSFS because I want to see things outside the sim. 

Maybe it is you using the term 'immersion breaking' that I am misunderstanding, because I wouldn't be using a product that breaks my immersion.

"Immersion breaking" is anything that simply doesn't look "real" to keep it simple, the Horizon Line Bug, the issue we're discussing, buildings/taxiway signs "popping" into view etc etc. 

They all look wrong, they are all immersion breaking to me because the immersion is broken. That doesn't mean the game is unplayable, that doesn't mean I should go play something else, it's just the way it is but there's no hiding from the fact that they are there. 

4 hours ago, vonmar said:

Just to verify.

Was MSFS2020 supposed to run for 10 years?

The platform was meant to run for 10 years, not 2020 specifically.

4 hours ago, Dermot McClusky said:

It's going to continue on for some amount of time. I don't think anyone knows the exact time, but measured in years can be expected. 

We do know, 2020 support will continue until 2028

1 hour ago, bobcat999 said:

 but for me the biggest disappointment is the pop-in scenery is still as bad. 

The sim is still 2 months from release plenty of time for fixes and such. The build itself is probably a month or more old, there's no evidence of that, but that's usually how it works in the gaming industry, demos are split off a few weeks sometimes months before the event showing it off.

The pop in could also be caused by the fact they had like 20 PC all running on the same network connection.

Edited September 21, 20241 yr by Tuskin38

6 minutes ago, Tuskin38 said:

there's no evidence of that,

There is some. A lot of the creators mentioned they were using an older build, but that build was at least stable. You can also tell it was very guided experience with the planes they were allowed to test.

Folks only had an hour with the sim also.

I am very suspect of the internet. Hotels aren't known for good internet and I think AvAngel mentioned she could tell the internet was struggling.

A lot of people are putting I feel too much weight on the video footage. Back in the day, I wrote for PC Gamer and we'd do these sorts of junkets. Most of the time is the presentations, running the interview circuit, and all that stuff. In game time wasn't much, for clear reasons. Whatever we were using wasn't a release version. We just needed to get what we'd need to write about. Now this was back in the print days so we weren't capturing footage, etc. 

14 hours ago, hs118 said:

The developer of FlightControlReplay and his technology will be natively incorporated into MSFS 2024. Here is how to create FlyBy using the current iteration and MSFS 2020. Likely will be very similar in MSFS 2024.

 

A 5 minute tutorial how to 'set up' a Fly-By view ??..... Isn't that totally rediculous !?...

Normally,in a flight simulator you have a Camera menu from which you can select VC, External, Fly-By (also via key of course). That's it really... That's how it used to be in FSX, P3D, FS9 and before. If you need a third party program to 'set up' a Fly-By camera and you need a 5 minute tutorial to learn how to do that something stinks, doesn't it.

Atm, after seeing some of the MSFS2024 preview video's popping up, i'm afraid Fly-By camera fans can forget about it for another 4 years. And forget about FCR as well when it comes to a Fly-By view. It's called a Beta in the current FCR version and it's even more cumbersome to set up than it is to do that with that MSFS Drone thingy. It looks very much like MSFS is just too complex for a smooth working Fly-By camera view to integrate. That's why Asobo won't touch such a camera feature with a barge pole.. Who ever has heard Jorge Neumann speak the words "Fly-By" ?..

It's "Fly-By Bye-Bye" as far as MSFS and MSFS24 are concerned, atleast the  easy 'One Click Instant Fly-By View'. Better get used to it, guys, or fly DCS, now THAT's an easy one click Fly-By camera ! Best i've seen sofar ! ( possibly because not even half as complex as MSFS scenerywise aka not complex at all....)

 

Edited September 21, 20241 yr by Javiz

40 minutes ago, Tuskin38 said:

We do know, 2020 support will continue until 2028

The build itself is probably a month or more old, there's no evidence of that...

I didn't realize they'd set it for 2028, I guess that's good they have a hard limit set already. 

FYI, a couple of the YouTubers/media did confirm your suspicion that it's an older build.

1 hour ago, MarcG said:

They all look wrong, they are all immersion breaking to me because the immersion is broken.

Ok. I would use 'immersion breaking' to denote software I wouldn't bother using.  Small items like you mention are there, but do not spoil my 'immersion' as they quickly get tuned out by my brain.  It would drive me nuts if every flight I would notice all these small issues!

16 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

Ok. I would use 'immersion breaking' to denote software I wouldn't bother using.  Small items like you mention are there, but do not spoil my 'immersion' as they quickly get tuned out by my brain.  It would drive me nuts if every flight I would notice all these small issues!

Yes unfortunately my brain is tuned to finding errors, bugs & issues as I've been beta testing games since the early 1990s(!), so when I see something I cannot unsee it or train my brain to forget about it, it's just there and I know it's there but that does not hold back my enjoyment of any product unless the issues are game breaking, which is a whole other area.