2 hours ago, ljk811 said:

Does this mean that the previous development progress of 350 in msfs2020 was fake? Isn't 350 developed based on msfs2020, but now it tells us that it does not support msfs2020? ! Are you kidding me?

I'm pretty sure they were developing the A350 off of MSFS 2020 initially. I would be surprised if Microsoft gave them permission to develop the A350 off of any copies of MSFS 2024 they had, as that is unfair advantage to the other 3rd party developers that don't have access to MSFS 2024, and if this leaked, it would be bad PR for both iniBuilds and Microsoft.  IniBuilds probably only has permission to use their copy of MSFS 2024 to develop the planes that they were contracted to develop for MSFS 2024, such as the Beluga, A330, etc, that you get when you purchase MSFS 2024.

Having said that, iniBuilds developers have in depth knowledge of the MSFS 2024 API and SDK.  They probably determined it would be a headache to support the A350 in both MSFS 2020 and MSFS 2024, so they decided to make it easier and only release the A350 for MSFS 2024.

Still, that's a lot of lost money for iniBuilds. If iniBuilds still plans to release the A350 by the end of this year, when they release it, I wouldn't be surprised if 30% of MSFS users are still on MSFS 2020.  But perhaps the complexities of supporting the A350 in both MSFS 2020 and MSFS 2024 for years down the road, wasn't worth the short term lost revenue of MSFS 2020 user not being able to buy it. iniBuilds is also probably calculating that when those 30% of MSFS users switch to MSFS 2024, they will probably buy the A350 then.

12 minutes ago, longhaul747 said:

It was mentioned in one of those threads by Mathijs at PDMG that right now they really don't know anything.  However depending on the amount of rework needed they "MAY" have to charge an upgrade fee.  Its not confirmed but depending on how it goes for others its almost a sure thing that unless its a drag and drop transition they will be charging a fee for the update.  

Ok yes there is that post where Mathijs says they don't have new details or access to SDK yet, etc. But I can't find any post where he (or other PMDG devs) says they may charge an upgrade fee, unless I guess your own opinion is that? (and yes that's a possibility).
 

12 minutes ago, longhaul747 said:

 I think its pretty likely that FS2020 planes will work in FS2024 but I see a lot of problems especially with flight modeling.

Do you mean that FS2020 planes will present new problems in their FMs due to them being minimally updated to work as-is in 2024? That is definitely *not* the case, as 2024 is backwards compatible with the MSFS 2024 FM, APIs, etc so all current planes will/should behave exactly the same in 2024. The only new/extra work required from devs would be to take advantage of any *new* features in MSFS 2024 (be they flight dynamics related, visuals, etc). Even for that I just don't see the premium devs charging anything for existing users of those aircraft in 2020, but then again if the work involved is substantial they may charge some fee.
 

Edited September 23, 20241 yr by lwt1971

2 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

Even for that I just don't see the premium devs charging anything for existing users of those aircraft in 2020, but then again if the work involved is substantial they may charge some fee.

I am curious how much work integrating the new charts and flight planner will be. It may be not much back end, but the EFBs, MCDUS etc will need updates.

11 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

Ok yes there is that post where Mathijs says they don't have new details or access to SDK yet, etc. But I can't find any post where he (or other PMDG devs) says they may charge an upgrade fee, unless I guess your own opinion is that? (and yes that's a possibility).
 

Do you mean that FS2020 planes will present new problems in their FMs due to them being minimally updated to work as-is in 2024? That is definitely *not* the case, as 2024 is backwards compatible with the MSFS 2024 FM, APIs, etc so all current planes will/should behave exactly the same in 2024. The only new/extra work required from devs would be to take advantage of any *new* features in MSFS 2024 (be they flight dynamics related, visuals, etc). Even for that I just don't see the premium devs charging anything for existing users of those aircraft in 2020, but then again if the work involved is substantial they may charge some fee.
 

FS2024 has a pretty much entirely new flight model engine so its very possible we will have some issues that will need to be reworked.  Exactly how much is anyone's guess at this point but its a pretty high probability.  They might "work" but work well will likely be another matter.  Of coarse we really don't know at this point.  I don't think its a good sign that iniBuilds is going FS2024 only.  I get that supporting 2 platforms is more work and might make little sense but in my opinion it means it won't carry over at all.  Maybe it will or maybe it won't.  Not really sure at this point what iniBuild's really means by FS2024 only?  Maybe it will work in FS2020 and they just won't support it.  That would make more sense and ease my concerns if it is the case.  We don't and likely won't know until FS2024 is actually out!

I do believe that once FS2024 is actually out and working well for the most part the future of FS2020 will likely be fading fast.  Even myself will likely not bother with FS2020 any longer "IF" its working well and things carry over.  

I am pretty sure Mathijs did say they "May" have to charge a fee in one of the threads.  It was not decided yet since they don't know what is needed but being a business if an opportunity exist to charge for an upgrade they will.   

11 minutes ago, longhaul747 said:

FS2024 has a pretty much entirely new flight model engine so its very possible we will have some issues that will need to be reworked.  Exactly how much is anyone's guess at this point but its a pretty high probability.  They might "work" but work well will likely be another matter.  Of coarse we really don't know at this point.

The new features/capabilities in 2024 are all "additive" sim changes, in that existing aircraft should still work as-is in v2024 (FM, systems, etc), this is also why existing aircraft are not going to immediately and automatically get the new 2024 flight dynamics benefits but would need to be intentionally adapted/developed-for by the aircraft devs... but yes as always the devil will be in the details so we shall see soon enough.
 

Edited September 23, 20241 yr by lwt1971

Someone (I don't recall who at the moment) trying flying one of the 2020 Cessna floatplanes in the 2024 demo and it was bouncing around on the water the exact same way it does now, not as smooth compared to the 2024 exclusive water planes they tried.

So it's possible it just wasn't updated yet, that could be an example of how a 'legacy' aircraft acts in 2024. Exactly as it does in 2020.

Edited September 23, 20241 yr by Tuskin38

2 hours ago, longhaul747 said:

I think this is bad move by iniBuilds.  In theory they should be pretty much backwards compatible as is.  However the more we learn about FS2024 this is looking less likely to be the case.

Also as mentioned above iniBuilds is working with Asobo on the A330 so they have advanced knowledge on the inner workings of FS2024.

It's not just iniBuilds but PMDG has recently mentioned that depending on the amount of rework needed an upgrade charge may occur.  Originally it was mentioned that they would be upgraded free of charge back when that subject was a hot potato!

Despite the new eye candy in FS2024 it's going to be a huge can of worms.  Right during a fragile time when lots of new projects are about to be introduced.  

I don't have an answer and I guess these days they call it progress.  However I think we will be seeing many delays in development!

No, you've got it backwards 😉

v2020 addons are largely compatible under v2024, not the other way 'round.

This is normal in the grand scheme of flight sim development across multiple sims.

https://fselite.net/content/inibuilds-shares-further-msfs-2024-plans-a350-for-2024-only/

This was confirmed in July, but as a reminder, the Airbus A300-600R from iniBuilds will be upgraded to Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 free of charge.

As for those released prior to today’s statement, we need to reference the information iniBuilds shared back in July. All products released this year will be brought to MSFS 2024 for free, along with “most” that released in 2023. They did add that a few select products will have new versions made from scratch, but that previous owners would get a discount.
 

Edited September 23, 20241 yr by lwt1971

2 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

Also re: PMDG, there are two classes of updates here..

YES.

Despite the FUD constantly flung around PMDG and "upgrade fees", I've yet to see one if it didn't involve moving to a new simulator (at least insofar as Prepar3D).

v2024 is NOT a new simulator.

And if they DID charge a reasonable upgrade fee for...something that's brand new in v2024, then I'd certainly consider it. And if they finally embraced CFD/SBS/et al, they couldn't take my money fast enough!

40 minutes ago, BrammyH said:

I am curious how much work integrating the new charts and flight planner will be. It may be not much back end, but the EFBs, MCDUS etc will need updates.

Why would add on airplanes need new MCDUs and EFBs? A Boeing/airbus/MD fms is independent of whatever flightsim wants us to use for flight planning. Is it not? Can’t a user still use the web based simbrief or whatever to plan their flights? 
 

What am I missing?

56 minutes ago, longhaul747 said:

I think its pretty likely that FS2020 planes will work in FS2024 but I see a lot of problems especially with flight modeling.  Also it will depend on how much bling will need to be written into the plane?  At this point we really don't know anything but if history repeats these planes will likely need to be redone in order to enjoy them in MSFS. 

No, this is wrong.

Asobo have set out - explicitly - to avoid developers from facing mandatory updates to their addons in v2020 to v2024.

This is especially the case with the flight modeling, where they new features are essentially an extra, and optional, layer that devs can implement as they see fit.

This is simply a continuation of exactly what has been transpiring in v2020 for the last several years (e.g., the intro of CFD, etc.).

The place to watch out, at least using other flight sims as examples, is the new photometric lighting. That caused no end of trouble for 3PDs in X-Plane v12, as well as in P3D v6.

19 minutes ago, ahsmatt7 said:

What am I missing?

That the MCDUs/EFBs in the Fenix, a306, PMDG, etc. all ingest Simbrief data currently. The backend of the MCDUs/EFBs will need to be updated to ingest MSFS flight planner routes. Plus using the new charts.

It is likely just an API call, but they'll need to at least present the user with a choice of using either Simbrief or MSFS2024.

Actually, thinking about it, I'm not sure what these planes do with the current 2020 flight planner from the map.

As with a lot of things for 2024, small back end changes could add up to a larger overall change.

1 hour ago, BrammyH said:

That the MCDUs/EFBs in the Fenix, a306, PMDG, etc. all ingest Simbrief data currently. The backend of the MCDUs/EFBs will need to be updated to ingest MSFS flight planner routes. Plus using the new charts.

It is likely just an API call, but they'll need to at least present the user with a choice of using either Simbrief or MSFS2024.

Actually, thinking about it, I'm not sure what these planes do with the current 2020 flight planner from the map.

As with a lot of things for 2024, small back end changes could add up to a larger overall change.

I presumed that was your logic. It makes sense. I don’t think these planes do anything with the fs2020 built in planner. 
 

Hopefully it’s nothing too major for them! 
 

good day!

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

No, this is wrong.

Asobo have set out - explicitly - to avoid developers from facing mandatory updates to their addons in v2020 to v2024.

This is especially the case with the flight modeling, where they new features are essentially an extra, and optional, layer that devs can implement as they see fit.

This is simply a continuation of exactly what has been transpiring in v2020 for the last several years (e.g., the intro of CFD, etc.).

The place to watch out, at least using other flight sims as examples, is the new photometric lighting. That caused no end of trouble for 3PDs in X-Plane v12, as well as in P3D v6.

"The place to watch out, at least using other flight sims as examples, is the new photometric lighting. That caused no end of trouble for 3PDs in X-Plane v12, as well as in P3D v6."

This is the area of concern that painters will have to watch for.  I'm assuming they will keep the same basic structure on the composite (COMP) files as they have in MSFS....but as we painfully discovered when we got accustomed to painting these maps in P3d when they switched to PBR materializing...those where not compatible with the method MSFS adapted.

As you can clearly see...in p3D, we customized PBR with maps that looked like this (this is specifically crucial when painting bare metal liveries...as these 2 examples are):

 

Now in MSFS they look like this:

It is my greatest hope that they don't alter the RGB channel assignments or start using the now-unused alpha channel (by most devs) that will render painter's thousands of liveries incompatible. 😐 

I don't think it will happen....but then again that little sanfu in the transition from P3d to MSFS was an eye-opener. 🙂 

9 minutes ago, Steve Dra said:

It is my greatest hope that they don't alter the RGB channel assignments or start using the now-unused alpha channel (by most devs) that will render painter's thousands of liveries incompatible.

They've said you can use mod addons in 2024 without modification, so it's very likely they'll do something that breaks the textures.

Edited September 23, 20241 yr by Tuskin38