3 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

7 hours ago, CO2Neutral said:

 

If he directed his ire at others I wouldn’t. But I appear to be the sole target. Hence why I became so annoyed and years of promoting their Concorde which remains the best by far seems to count for nothing.

Yes, you have always been a strong advocate for FSL and their Concorde here on Avsim, which makes his reaction to you (specifically) very surprising.

It would seem someone at FS Labs has decided to remove the whole topic. Feelings of remorse?

9 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

If it was an isolated incident I would. Sadly it’s not the first time he’s had a go at me. He rarely posts replies to others. This is the second time in the last few months and I have been threatened with my posts being moderated if I continued. I hope people know me well enough to know I’m not the type to stoke flames. All I want was answers to when bugs would be fixed.

I'm sad to hear that, especially as you've consistently been a level-headed supporter of their work.

3 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

It would seem someone at FS Labs has decided to remove the whole topic. Feelings of remorse?

I saw that and checked here to confirm. I really want FSLabs to succeed and I would check in every few days on the forum to see if there was any tidbit being dropped. But after this I'm going leave that bookmark unread for a while. Whenever their Concord/A330 shows up, they show up. We're getting a functional 330 and 321XLR in 6 weeks so I'm no longer anticipating from them. I wish them them the best.

2 minutes ago, FrankSalo said:

I saw that and checked here to confirm. I really want FSLabs to succeed

I do too because they make great aircraft. But their customer relations stinks to high heaven. They don’t seem to understand that their continued silence really gets people’s backs up.

In 4 weeks it will be a whole year since the last bug fix for 64-bit P3D Concorde. Not a glimmer of when we can expect the next one. 🙁

14 hours ago, LHookins said:

What are chances that they're basically doing it for free, as a labor of love, and any money made from sales goes to pay license fees for their tools and whatever and occasionally having to farm some work out that they can't do themselves?

You would think they would gladly advertise the fact that they are updating it for free, which makes me doubt that this is the case.

14 hours ago, LHookins said:

Only the truly insane among us will spend 16 hours a day on a project, which I did for 8 months once upon a time.

Yes, but these are *businesses* and *payware* developers.  If they state that they are working on an update, I expect them to follow through - not make people wait years. 

I spend at least 10 hours a week working on freeware scenery and aircraft.  I'm currently spending at least an hour a day working on flight dynamics and testing Airbus planes.  And I don't charge a dime.

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for payware developers.

Dave 

6 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

It would seem someone at FS Labs has decided to remove the whole topic. Feelings of remorse?

Oh please...

You are doing the exact same thing you did over at their fora. Positing an opinion/question based on...?

Put it behind you, mate. Move on. Life's too bloody short for short-circuiting over minutiae.

10 minutes ago, speedyTC said:

Oh please...

You are doing the exact same thing you did over at their fora. Positing an opinion/question based on...?

Put it behind you, mate. Move on. Life's too bloody short for short-circuiting over minutiae.

My post was based on logic. Who is buying P3D aircraft? Very few so for a couple of years their income from those sales must be very small. Where else is income going to come from? The magic money tree?

On 10/2/2024 at 12:44 PM, DD_Arthur said:

 

My moneys on animated cabin crew; a bunch of slightly jaded young ladies in uncomfortable clothing will give a full safety briefing during pushback, dish out toasted sandwiches in the cruise and try and flog you a duty free quart of Old Man's Finger (75% proof) at top of descent.🙃

Wow, duty free! Hopefully more information later in The Bargain Hunter's Shack ?

2 hours ago, dave2013 said:

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for payware developers.

It doesn't mean that they're breaking even or that everyone is taking a salary.  I've seen that one in action.  A lot of the time any actual income is put back into the company.

Since I retired in about 2000, I've worked on a LOT of projects, never been paid, even once when it was offered for an extensive tutorial I wrote.  I've got my name in a lot of credits, even in a few printed manuals (remember those?). 

The most recent major project, the developers messaged me and asked if they could use my bug fixes and translations.  Of course they could - I wasn't doing this work to have it hidden away in a private mod, but to help everyone I could.  The next version of my mod (mostly script source code) was about half the size it was before.

The various recent minor projects I did for my own amusement, but I was contacted once and basically offered a job by someone whose name you'd recognize, but decided I wanted to keep my independence.  When your name is officially associated with a company, you have to be very careful what you post online, and at the time I was still telling certain people and groups exactly what I thought.

Hook

7 hours ago, dave2013 said:

I spend at least 10 hours a week working on freeware scenery and aircraft.  I'm currently spending at least an hour a day working on flight dynamics and testing Airbus planes.  And I don't charge a dime.

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for payware developers.

I don't believe they are looking for sympathy.

High resolution scenery (not the free stuff from our government) is expensive.  $6M for high res sat imagery for Greenland color corrected, clouds removed, shadows neutralized.  Tools to create 20,000+ hour complex aircraft is expensive.  3D Modeling software is expensive.  Obtaining aircraft schematics, systems information, blue prints, etc. is expensive.  Getting the rights from aircraft companies is expensive.

I foolishly tried to obtain details on an experimental seaplane thinking the builder would be more than accommodating to help give his aircraft life and exposure in the simulated world, boy was I wrong ... $100,000 starting.

11 hours ago, CO2Neutral said:

I don't believe they are looking for sympathy.

I didn't say they were looking for sympathy.  I said that I don't have any, whether they want it or not.

11 hours ago, CO2Neutral said:

High resolution scenery (not the free stuff from our government) is expensive.  $6M for high res sat imagery for Greenland color corrected, clouds removed, shadows neutralized.  Tools to create 20,000+ hour complex aircraft is expensive.  3D Modeling software is expensive.  Obtaining aircraft schematics, systems information, blue prints, etc. is expensive.  Getting the rights from aircraft companies is expensive.

Personally, I've never been into the super-detailed, super-duper hyper realistic aircraft with specs down to the millimeter and milligram.  Same with the scenery.  I think it's a waste of time to try to get that level of detail in a sim that is itself limited in the level of realism and detail that it can provide.  It's like trying to play an 8K video on a 720p display.

It's clear to me, based on your comments, that you're biased in favor of the payware folks, and that's OK.  I just think that you should be up front about it.

Dave

1 hour ago, dave2013 said:

It's clear to me, based on your comments, that you're biased in favor of the payware folks, and that's OK.  I just think that you should be up front about it.

I think he was pretty up front about it.  It's not like we need to have a "Disclaimer:  I'm in favor of payware developers"  in every post.  And there really is nothing wrong with favoring payware developers.

Dave, you're obviously a smart guy.  And you've been around long enough that it was customary to sign your posts.  You might even remember when the Enter key was still labeled Return.  "OK, now hit Return."  "Uh, what's Return?"  True story.

We've both created custom work and published it for free.  I suspect you do not charge for your work for the same reason I don't charge for mine:  It's not worth the hassle to set up a sales system for the miniscule amount it would bring in; a lot fewer people would get to use our work; and whenever people have to pay for something they may feel entitled to make demands.  Sometimes even free stuff attracts demands;  I once threated to delete the source code if I got one more demand.  Solved that problem right quick-like.

Every aircraft I often fly in the sims gets some kind of custom work, no matter how minor, and some get major overhauls.  And no matter what category I'm working in at the moment, whether aircraft, cars, sailing ships, wargame simulations, The Sims,  various tutorials (and a few I'm forgetting) I often either publish the changes or offer them to the original developers for free.

If a payware is something you want and you're comfortable with the price, you buy it.  If it's too expensive, like when the F-16 sim Back to Baghdad had a price three times the going rate, you give it a pass.  Then you tweak it to suit your preferences.  Sometimes you publish the tweaks, sometimes you offer them to the developers, and people learn your name and you might get your name in the credits. 

I don't know about you, but I did it all as a labor of love... and maybe a little bit for the fame. 🙂 

Hook

Gents, I’m not sure how your replies relate to FS Labs.

Perhaps this topic has run it's course??