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Should We Un-Install SP2?

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I only have one aircraft effected to the point to where it is 'unflyable', and it is so out of date, it is probably time to retire it anyhow. That aircraft? The Carenado Dakota. All my other Carenado products work just fine.Also, I have found 'ported' FS9 aircraft just do not perform as well as they did in FS9, for the most part, I concentrate on my FSX designed craft...more often than not.

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Some of you have read my jiberish before but here are my answers anyway:1. Yes Keep SP2 and only use add-ons created with it in mind as its time to move forward. we all knew the day would come and its about time etc.... But you have to ask, is this the sim that is worth that sacrifice? I personaly feel that if we had got an all new sim with a really good all around package to start with that would have been worth jumping over to all new etc. But we didn't, Aces delivered in so many areas it is true but this one still has too many ugly parts that are right in your face. Various one step forward and two steps back type of things, just look at the terrain.very promising, 1 meter or less pixel res texture but it is only good for straight down veiwing and now for some reason the near outward forward view is even less detailed then FS9 (Same video card same max HQ settings).Ugly desert/dry grass textures everywhere with every season except summer and fake looking wheather effects plus we couldn't be trusted enough to have an option to fade out the auto gen, no it just pops onto your screen like it is FS5 scenery with bad range settings. Just these few issues alone have killed the fun for me, I can't understand how these made it into final and then to have two whole service packs out on not one of them addresses it. If I had to rank FSX for the asthetics of the terrain it would fall below FS9. Or2. No, just keep SP1, and have many more decent add-on options than SP2 and keep flying untill a better sim comes out that is worth starting over with. In the final, we probably need to move ahead, support those that develop towards the future and hope for FSXI but its a tuff to decide.

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DN - I concur with all of your comments. I find the same things true in my install of FSX. Good system, great video card...I continue to mold my install, like clay in the hands of Michaelangelo, perhaps more as an academic step than out of pure enjoyment, though sometimes it surprises me how nice it really flies. Climbing out of the cold, snow-capped peaks surrounding desolate Yelizevo / UHPP in Russia at dawn the other day, the sky was an ominous purple, the clouds puffy and volumetric, and my Overland 777 with it's missing forehead texture swayed and bounced gently in the gusting winds, requiring me to gently coax her into wings level flight. It was truly wonderful. I see the potential, I really do, so I'm inclined to agree with you that it's time to move forward. Let's see what Aces does with it. http://www.my-buddy-icon.com/Icons/objects/red_3d_plane.gifAlex ChristoffN562ZBaltimore, MD

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The Carenado Stationair works fine with SP2, and with VCrainfix applied it even has raindrops on the windsheild. As does the ATR-72 from F1, the PMDG 1900C, the FSD Seneca V V2 and even the MAAM-Sim DC-3 after their fix was applied. Without SP2 I wouldn't have rain on the windsheild of these and many freeware birds.I consider myself over the hump; having purchased Acceleration and the CS C-130. I would have to give up both to go back. Yes, some aircraft are unflyable; such as the TBM 700 and the Turbo- Beaver amphib. (They would be fixable if I had the expertise. Simple transparency issues.) But if I ever go back to SP1, it will be because I really miss the friends I left behind in multiplayer. I would also then miss the friends who have SP2 and especially Acceleration. It's a quandry...Best regards, Donald T. :-waveFLYing? It's cool. Trillions of birds and insects can't be wrong.

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Good Morning Alex:You do not state what your specs are, what operating system you are useing, nor whether you implement the acceleration package along with SP2 or not. If per chance you are useing Vista with DX10 and the acceleration package ignore the following:That being said, my findings with third party aircraft from FS9 or otherwise need the following clarifications:I am operating with XPPro and DX9, the freeware SP2 installation and NO acceleration package. I also primarily fly with multiple monitors in the windowed mode and 2d panel implementation, although I have not noticed any problem relative to VC panels when taking a peek.I do not have any Overland aircraft, but do have the Carenado Beechcraft Bonanza V35b. I see no problems with it. I have quite a number of imported aircraft from FS9 and have noticed only the following problems (with SP2 installed).1. For some prop planes (not all), the prop texture in spot view is an undesirable bold circle. I simply disable that bgl (rename it), copy one from an aircraft with no problems, and rename it to the original. The prop bgl from the Carenado V35b is a good replacement (renamed to the original for the aircraft in question). This really is the only glitch I have noticed unique to SP2 operating under the above defined configuration and IMHO is no biggie to remedy.2. For the FSD Porters, the panel did not work, so I used the Cessna 208 Grand Caravan panel. If I remember correctly this was the case before SP2 as well so is somewhat academic relative to your post. The FSD Cheyenne and Navajo panels work fine with no problems. Note that all of these planes are the early FSD versions. The later versions may or may not have any problems.3. The PSS Dash 8 needs help in establishing the flight path with FMC control of the Autopilot. Once established it follows reasonably well. Only manual ILS approaches seem to be stable as autopilot control is very sloppy. This also may have nothing to do with SP2 and was the case before installing it. All of my PSS Airbus/IFDG liveries and the Concorde work fine (including FMC operation).Happy flying:RTH

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Leave SP2 installed and get used to the idea of losing backwards compatability.FS11 should be doing away with it completely if we have heard correctly......Glenn

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Actually I think it's the "unwilling to be advanced" users who are having greatest difficulty letting go of FS2000,2,4 compatible aircraft trying to force them to work in FSX.But - if someone decides that FSX SP2 is not worthwile - a supposition I disagree with totally - do not uninstall SP2.Uninstall FSX completely and do a fresh install of FSX and SP1 only.I fully understand that somethings don't work right in FSX. That is why I keep FS2004 on my system and use it for those aircraft.I don't try to make the square peg of FS2004 complex aircraft fit into FSX.

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RTH - My system specs are the same as yours: I am operating with XPPro and DX9, the freeware SP2 installation and NO acceleration package. We differ in that I run exclusively in VC with multiple monitors via the Matrox Triple Head to Go system. So perhaps some of the transparency issues I'v experienced in the VC's of several planes is not something you've had to address in the 2-D panels. Still, at heart, I am in agreement with all of you here in terms of looking forward and not back, so I will keep SP2 and grow with the changes. I've already learned something in the process - how to edit texture files, change the alpha channel settings and fix some of the transparent texture problems. So it's been a learning experience, and that is definitely a good thing.Cheers,http://www.my-buddy-icon.com/Icons/objects/red_3d_plane.gifAlex ChristoffN562ZBaltimore, MD

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With every new version, something else gets chopped. That's the way of the world. Each of us has to decide if the step forward is worth the loss. For me, it's an unqualified yes. To me, the difference between FS9 and FSX are like night and day - I far prefer FSX even with it's idiosyncracies. After all, FS9 had it's glitches too.If you want to go to the next level you will have to part with some of your favcrites, if not now, then FS11 will surely be a killer.VicQ6600 G0 CPU 2.4 o/c 3.65Evga 680i A1 with P31 BIOS 2G XP2-8500 DDR2 1066FSB Mushkin 996535 RAM 5-5-4-12-2T320G 7200 HD partitioned for XP/Vista/Programs 2 - 74G Raptors in RAID0 500G 7200 HD for backup SATA DVD burner Evga 8800GTS 640 PCIx 169.13 betaKandalf LCS case w/ built in liquid cooling 850W Thermaltake power supplyVisit the Virtual Pilot's Centerwww.flightadventures.comhttp://www.hifisim.com/banners/hifi-supporter-sigbanner.jpgRadar Contact Supporter: http://www.jdtllc.com/

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Hi, I have sp1 installed and fsx works fine. Got a new gaming machine on order (dx9) and when I install fsx to it I've been wondering about sp2 and "acceleration".....Should I install sp2 and maybe get Acceleration? My addon aircraft include the Cessna 441 conquest, MD80, Feelthere 737, Feelthere Citation X, ATR72.....Will these operate fine with the sp2 etc installed? Is fsx perfornacne (fps) improved with sp2?I appreciate any responses. Many thanks. Dave

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AlexClearly you are aware of your choice. "... I almost cannot conceive of flight simulation without Carenado and Overland products... ." These products may be flyable in the latest FS, but not without "laborious" adaptations. But you're also wishing that newer versions of FS continue to support these products so you can enjoy their new stuff together with your old stuff. The solution is clear for you. Given that there's no "we", keep enough versions of FS around to satisfy your desires. Everyone else, individually, will do appropriately. Have fun.Dave Vega

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My thoughts are that you should keep FSX SP2, but also keep your FS9 install too. Fly your Overland and Carenado stuff in FS9. Fly the rest in FSX. Win-win situation for you.We are all most likely going to have to get used this with FS11. It will possibly be like this times ten.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

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FS9 aircraft belong in FS9 and we should not expect them to work in FSX.The best approach right now is to keep FS9 around for legacy content and FSX for the cutting-edge, new stuff.I never expected that FS9 aircraft without a FSX patch work in FSX anyway, so I am not too terribly disappointed or surprised that they don't work. My favorite FS9 add-ons have either been ported to be compatible with SP2 (ATR, Level-D, Cheyenne, Eaglesoft planes) or are completely new releases (FT A320).Pat

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>FS9 aircraft belong in FS9 and we should not expect them to>work in FSX.>>The best approach right now is to keep FS9 around for legacy>content and FSX for the cutting-edge, new stuff.>>I never expected that FS9 aircraft without a FSX patch work in>FSX anyway, so I am not too terribly disappointed or surprised>that they don't work. My favorite FS9 add-ons have either been>ported to be compatible with SP2 (ATR, Level-D, Cheyenne,>Eaglesoft planes) or are completely new releases (FT A320).>>PatThe problem with this argument, is these aircraft did work in FSX prior to SP2. Now I could understand Aces doing this if FSX was going to be further developed, but Phil already stated, this is the end of the line for further FSX development. So why did they pick now to break backward compatibility? Since it's a good bet there will be major changes in FSXI there's a good possibility FSX SP2 aircraft and scenery won't be compatible with it. Was it so they could say they implemented DX10 which was originally promised? If so, I submit, that since it wasn't fully implemented as planned, that it wasn't worth the effort. Aces, should have bit the bullet and backed off of implementing DX10 at this point, unless it could have been done as first envisioned. Breaking backward compatibility intentionally is something you do in a RTM release not a patch. This is going to result in a division in this community. Addons that work in FS2004 and FSX SP1, may not work without problems in SP2, while others building SP2 addons may not work in SP1! This isn't good for either camp your in!! Me I'm lucky to have a dual boot system, so most of my flying is done in SP1 on XP, while I use the acceleration features on Vista.

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I gotta say-and I spent lots of $$ on lots of aircraft in fs9-pre fsx sp2 etc.-but I am not interested much anymore in the prior aircraft-they just don't hold a candle to the new ones..imho...Then again-the sim is where I can afford new-my real aircraft is over 30 years old!http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/1b5baf...b9f427f694g.jpgMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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Well put Tom. I totally agree with what you put forth.Breaking backwards compatibility mid-stream should NOT have happenedand I too suspect it was done for the sole purpose of "shipping"the DX10 "preview", which IMO was a total bust.Not having Vista, nor likely to convert to it in the foreseeablefuture, I am rather unhappy with the PORKING of the FS9 aircraftthat were previously fine in FSX RTM and SP1.There are several aircraft in that category that I have taken the trouble to attempt to salvage since there are no equivalent FSX-SP2-compliantversions and most likely won't be. That, plus the lack of sufficientFSX-SP2 compliant aircraft, period. Particularly 3rd party freeware.I still have two FS9 installations on my system as well as an FSX-SP1plus my FSX=AccelerationSP2. I find that I spend 99.99% of my time flying in the FSX=SP2 environment, but then as I have stated I'vegone to the trouble of salvaging my favorite FS9 aircraft to work inthat environment. As to AccelerationSP2 features I do on occasionenjoy carrier ops with the moving CVN fleets and Edards is great now that I've added parking to it so I as well as my AI can come and gofrom there. Probably the bigest "enhancement" though for me was thereturn to being able to see contrails from below as well as above.I run with alot of AI and have implemented to "50 mile long" contrailsand they sure add to my ASX skies as I cruise around.I sometimes use my FSX-SP1 install to test differences betweenit and SP2 but don't often fly with it. My FS9 installs are justsitting there taking up space on my J: drive but should I getthe sudden urge to fly a Super Connie I know I can do it there.( I don't use ANY aircraft in FSX that do not have a VC )Back to the SP2 issue at hand...There are a lot of other things that ACES could haveshould havespent time on rather than a crippled, watered down DX10 "preview".Let's hope they do a better job for FX11. Andlet me say I won't expect any backward compatibility at that point but hope the 3rdparty developers aren't forced to jump through multiple SDK hoopsin that release! Paul

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Backwards compatibility issues with third-party ported FS9 aircraft that were previously working in FSX with SP1 have apparently caused significant frustration in the advanced users flightsim community. There are several people who have uninstalled SP2 altogether to remedy this situation, only to meet with unstable performance of FSX and system crashes after just a few minutes of running it. That said, what is your experience with SP2? Can we live without it? Will we need it to progress in FSX as proprietary third party add-ons are released specifically for FSX? Is it time to turn our heads on the past and the many third party aircraft we have all come to know and love prior to installing the SP2 update, and that we got to work in FSX/SP1, and to look ahead to products designed specifically for FSX/SP2?I'm torn because my beloved Carenado GA aircraft and Overland heavy jet aircraft have succumbed to the dreaded texture transparency bug in SP2, and I almost cannot concieve of flight simulation without Carenado and Overland products available. The fixes involved, while do-able, are laborious - requiring you to edit each individual texture's bitmaps to conform with the new standards of SP2.I'm not terribly nostalgic, but on the other hand, would enjoy flying these aircraft in FSX as I did prior to installation SP2. While external fuselage texture bugs do not necessarily render an aircraft unflyable, misaligned VC panel gauges do. Has anyone un-installed SP2 and NOT met with crashes and system instability? That said, is it time to prepare our installations of FSX/SP2 for the future? Appreciate Your Thoughts and (constructive) Comments,http://www.my-buddy-icon.com/Icons/objects/red_3d_plane.gifAlex ChristoffN562ZBaltimore, MD

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I agree with you that Aces shouldn't have broke backwards compatibility mid-release. But I would also imagine that it's incredibly hard for them to pinpoint those backward compatibility issues, because most developers are using highly customized code that didn't follow the SDK or development guidelines that weren't even fully FS9-compliant in the first place.Pat

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>while others building SP2 addons may not work in SP1!This should not be a problem at all. Everything I've built so far to SDK2 specifications runs just fine in both FSX-RTM and FSX-SP1...As for the "DX10 Preview," I fully agree that it was a very poor decision to make, moreso since it did require sufficient code changes to create these back-compat problems...

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>>while others building SP2 addons may not work in SP1!>>This should not be a problem at all. Everything I've built so>far to SDK2 specifications runs just fine in both FSX-RTM and>FSX-SP1...>>As for the "DX10 Preview," I fully agree that it was a very>poor decision to make, moreso since it did require sufficient>code changes to create these back-compat problems...>Good post, I feel the same. AFAIC I'll be happily waiting for FSXI with my FSX XP1 and some FS9, flying RC4, VATSIM and VOX ATC. All what I want is flying right already, all, what I can see looks beautiful. I'm glad that ACES are working on their next release. 10c.Dirk98.

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yes it is a shame that some addon aircraft don't work with SP2, but I would never give up Acceleration because of the improvement performance-wise that I've seen. Besides, most of the aircraft I did download have worked, or at least, the ones I used often.

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>Paul->>4 installations of FS on one rig? Really? Holy cow...>http://www.my-buddy-icon.com/Icons/objects/red_3d_plane.gif>>Alex Christoff>N562Z>Baltimore, MD At one pont, prior to FSX, I have four installs of FS9. The initial one which kept growing and devoring HD space to the point I decided to create additional installs that shared resources. I created a"FS9_Clean" install for testing, "FS9_USA" for my North America flying and a "FS9_Europe" for flying on the other side of the "pond".When I added FSX I deleted the original FS9 and the "FS9_clean" installsbut kept the other 2. When FSX-AccelerationSP2 came along and I readthe reports of the various problems it caused with "legacy" aircraftand scenery I decided to keep a copy of FSX-SP1 available.I have 2x250GB hard drives so space isn't that much of an issue.Plus I have common Scenery and Addon Scenery for the FS9 installsand FSX shares my AI Aircraft, Addon Scenery 2 directories.The bigest space eaters are my digital camera pix. I travel alot and typically take 300-350 pictures a day. In one 3 week trip toFinland, Estonia and latvia I wound up with 20GB of pix and videoclips. The past two summers in Europe I accumulated similar numbersof pix and video clips. I keep my most recent trip pix on thesystem but offload to DVD's periodically :) Paul

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