9 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Tell me what needs improving in 2024? Nothing obvious that I can see from the videos I’ve watched. I never bothered buying P3Dv6 as the improvements didn’t seem worth it.

Every sim reaches a ceiling beyond which it’s difficult to improve. I think 2024 might be it.

I think technology improves, and so 2024 will at some point be antiquated as well.  I don't really see a "ceiling" as such, unless the world stops innovating or something like that.

There is no "ceiling" in simulation development, if there were we wouldn't have what we've got now compared to 20 years ago and in 20 years time we'll look back see how far we've moved on again. Simply look at how far both Flight & Racing simulations on home PCs have moved, albeit at a relatively slow pace on both (up until a couple of years back, things have sped up since!) but they've always pushed towards the next level of realism in both physics & graphics with plenty of room left for new development going forward.

What MS/Asobo have achieved is the ability to really push the tech forward into the Next Gen scenario, with MSFS24 there are many areas that push that forward again. It's certainly a very exciting time not just for Flight Simmers but for Racing fans as well, we live in very cool times.

1 hour ago, Mace said:

I think technology improves, and so 2024 will at some point be antiquated as well.  I don't really see a "ceiling" as such, unless the world stops innovating or something like that.

Ever heard of the law of diminishing returns? It applies to hi-fi where spending double or triple on a piece of equipment will give you a very modest improvement in sound instead of a doubling in performance. Same applies to flight sim. It costs a lot to research a new version and whether it’s economical viable.

Clouds would be the area that could improve but that is really difficult. Look out of the window next time you fly and compare that view to what any sim delivers.

Asobo never really said an 2020 addon would work out of the box in 2024, we devs need to update our package to make it least behave as a 2020 aircraft in 2024. Potential paid upgrade will most likely be for full conversions, so a 2020 plane can use all or part of the new 2024 features. (<--- this is actually a pretty complex and lenghty task). 

-2020 planes need a fix to work in 2024 marked as a 2020 plane

-2020 planes needs ton of work in 2024 as a full featured 2024 planes

-2020 planes ported to 2024 with no work or fixes will most likely have things wrong with them, and might not even be accepted for ingestion in the MP

 

To sum it up, the test in this video means literally nothing at this point

Edited October 24, 20241 yr by leprechaunlive

4 hours ago, leprechaunlive said:

Asobo never really said an 2020 addon would work out of the box in 2024, we devs need to update our package to make it least behave as a 2020 aircraft in 2024. Potential paid upgrade will most likely be for full conversions, so a 2020 plane can use all or part of the new 2024 features. (<--- this is actually a pretty complex and lenghty task). 

-2020 planes need a fix to work in 2024 marked as a 2020 plane

-2020 planes needs ton of work in 2024 as a full featured 2024 planes

-2020 planes ported to 2024 with no work or fixes will most likely have things wrong with them, and might not even be accepted for ingestion in the MP

 

To sum it up, the test in this video means literally nothing at this point

According to the official FAQ, "With very few exceptions, virtually all add-ons that work in Microsoft Flight Simulator (2020) today will function in Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024."
To me, and all other innocent/naïve customers surely that means that 2020 planes will work without needing a fix.
If not, it would be like advertising that a car will go 300mp/h without telling it will only go that fast when strapping a jet engine unto it.

Obviously, I don't expect for a 2020 aircraft to suddenly make use of all the new features in MSFS2024. I expect MSFS2020 aircraft only to be usable/available in Free Flight mode —at least until some minor updates have been made— and while I hope that some new features will trickle down to MSFS2020 planes we just have to wait and see, and not expect much in that regard.

Upgrading a 2020 aircraft to full 2024 level will probably take some effort from developers and I can accept to pay an upgrade fee for a full upgrade. I sure hope no developer will try to take advantage of the situation and make us pay for just a simple compatibility fix. Perhaps the usual suspects will try but respected developers will probably do a free upgrade or charge us a reasonable amount for their work.

35 minutes ago, Allard said:

To me, and all other innocent/naïve customers surely that means that 2020 planes will work without needing a fix.

But, of course "work how they did in 2020". So there will be no door, just the camera workaround and so on.

Aircraft are probably the hardest to make compatible. So if they manage to make 98% of all airports compatible but only 50% of all aircraft, percentage wise what they said would still not be totally wrong, that "with very few exceptions, ... all add-ons".

7 minutes ago, fsiscool said:

But, of course "work how they did in 2020". So there will be no door, just the camera workaround and so on.

Exactly. I would not be suprised if they are only selectable for Free Flight mode and have none of the new features.

I assume that MSFS2024 will recognise that an legacy aircraft is selected and switch to a legacy mode where not all of the new features are available. That way most stuff could function just as it does in MSFS2020 but we would still have the advantage of the new lightning, cirrus clouds, some of the ground effects but probably not the better ground handling.

9 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Ever heard of the law of diminishing returns? It applies to hi-fi where spending double or triple on a piece of equipment will give you a very modest improvement in sound instead of a doubling in performance. Same applies to flight sim. It costs a lot to research a new version and whether it’s economical viable.

Clouds would be the area that could improve but that is really difficult. Look out of the window next time you fly and compare that view to what any sim delivers.

Well, considering that we just had a revolutionary change in visuals 4 years ago, and another revolution last year (frame generation), I'd say there is lots of headroom for future improvement at little cost.

That's coming from a guy who has a little experience with hi-fi as well (I have a Lynn Sondek turntable and some other goodies, and a bunch of interconnect that .....are expensive...and only sound a little better than cheaper cables...)

26 minutes ago, Mace said:

Well, considering that we just had a revolutionary change in visuals 4 years ago, and another revolution last year (frame generation), I'd say there is lots of headroom for future improvement at little cost.

That's coming from a guy who has a little experience with hi-fi as well (I have a Lynn Sondek turntable and some other goodies, and a bunch of interconnect that .....are expensive...and only sound a little better than cheaper cables...)

Frame Generation wasn’t for MSFS alone. I’m now benefiting from it in P3D. That wheel can’t be reinvented. 😉 Where will the sim be improved and by how much? I just don’t see it. Clouds is the only area I think.

Using your Linn Sondek LP12 as an example the LP13 never arrived. They made small tweaks to the original turntable and yes, it’s probably better but I bet if you listened to an original LP12 it would still impress you. There were a lot of conmen back in those days regarding interconnects. 😉

 

11 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Ever heard of the law of diminishing returns? It applies to hi-fi where spending double or triple on a piece of equipment will give you a very modest improvement in sound instead of a doubling in performance. Same applies to flight sim. It costs a lot to research a new version and whether it’s economical viable.

Clouds would be the area that could improve but that is really difficult. Look out of the window next time you fly and compare that view to what any sim delivers.

This is pretty spectacular, I must say.  

I flew an approach into Kathmandu the other day, and watching a rain shaft move across the approach, blocking out the runway view, and then sliding past it just as I was coming up to minimums is eerily like real life.

 

56 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Frame Generation wasn’t for MSFS alone. I’m now benefiting from it in P3D. That wheel can’t be reinvented. 😉 Where will the sim be improved and by how much? I just don’t see it. Clouds is the only area I think.

I was talking about sim in general, not MSFS.  Frame Gen / Lossless Scaling is a revolution no matter what app/sim/game I think.

56 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Using your Linn Sondek LP12 as an example the LP13 never arrived. They made small tweaks to the original turntable and yes, it’s probably better but I bet if you listened to an original LP12 it would still impress you. There were a lot of conmen back in those days regarding interconnects. 😉

 

I know, I think my father fell victim to more than a few interconnect conmen.  Maybe me, too, in my younger days.

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Using your Linn Sondek LP12 as an example the LP13 never arrived. They made small tweaks to the original turntable

Not wanting to drive this off topic, but the LP12 strikes me as the hi-fi equivalent of Trigger's broom! There can't be much of the original still in use these days (although I've sort of lost touch with that world these days - still got my Xerxes/Krell/Sonus Fabers but it's all just gathering dust these days)

I like the esoteric hi-fi / serious sim analogy though - that works for me.

On 10/23/2024 at 8:55 AM, Ray Proudfoot said:

Well given there are people still using FS9, FSX and multiple versions of P3D there will always be those who prefer to stick with what they’re familiar with and works.

But the big difference of course is with those sims they don’t rely on a remote server to provide scenery.

Here we go again. Love when Ray derails a thread to reaffirm his decision to stay with P3D. 🙄

Edited October 24, 20241 yr by B777ER

7 hours ago, Allard said:

To me, and all other innocent/naïve customers surely that means that 2020 planes will work without needing a fix.

This is indeed the message, however, if you jump over to the mfs dev support forum you will see this does not appear to be the reality as of today.
EDIT: Adding a positive note to this, which is that it appears from above mentioned forum that the Asobo team is actively working towards full compatibility on launch and getting current issues ironed out. 

Edited October 24, 20241 yr by Saffa_Jake812

57 minutes ago, B777ER said:

Here we go again. Love when Ray derails a thread to reaffirm his decision to stay with P3D. 🙄

And you are the only person who is stirring the pot. Why don’t you discuss things in a mature way?  I didn’t derail the topic. I suggested the advances made to 2024 make it difficult for the version after that to make significant improvements. Discuss or desist.