6 hours ago, zachlog said:

One of my complaints or disappointments or characterize it however you want is the absence of weather data so that weather radar of the caliber that was possible with FSX but not with MSFS2020 can be developed.  I am talking about native weather data in MSFS2024 and not addons.  In the PMDG forum, there seems to be a suggestion that "As far as we know right now the camera system is not significantly changed and a weather radar will not be possible."  The link for this is below.  If the atmospherics in MSFS2024 are sufficiently improved so that turbulent atmosphere will feel as such instead of the current smooth flights regardless of the state of the atmosphere in MSFS2020, having weather radar becomes an absolute necessity.

Are you saying that weather data for the development of true weather radar is available in MSFS2024 ?  I think this is an important issue and I am interested in any feedback.

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/336001-16nov24-msfs2024-release-week-what-to-expect-from-pmdg/page2

Could it be that 3rd party developers wanted access to the base weather data for tilt?

Jorg more or less implied that 3rd party developers cannot get access to the base weather data because MeteoBlue won't allow it.  I believe Jorg wanted to discuss this with MeteoBlue again but it's understandable if MeteoBlue doesn't want their data exposed to anybody who can read it by just using the MSFS SDK.

The question you should ask in the PMDG forum is whether PMDG is missing tilt for the weather radar.  If it's only tilt that they are missing, then this might be solved if it's provided in the MSFS SDK. The statement above is very generic from Mathjis Kok, he is not specific about what PMDG is missing for a weather radar.  For all we know, Mathjis Kok could be referring to tilt, which is what the other 3rd party developers are missing for a proper weather radar.

On 12/16/2024 at 5:07 PM, RandallR said:

Yep - I did this in my training days also.  My instructor yelled "you've put us in a spin!" and brought us out of it.  Ironically, I had been doing the same maneuvers the previous day while practicing them solo.  If this had happened then I probably wouldn't have survived.

It just looked like we were sitting still while looking straight down (but the world was going round and round).  I would recognize it instantly today and could quickly recover.  This is why I advocate for spin-training as a requirement in the US but it continues to fall on deaf ears...

This happened to me as well. I was doing some stalls and using ailerons instead of the rudder. Next thing I know, the nose violently pitched down and the ground was spinning in front of my eyes! I thought I was going to die, and probably would have if the instructor was not there.

Spin training should be mandatory for the PPL and before a solo flight.

1 hour ago, strider1 said:

Spin training should be mandatory for the PPL and before a solo flight.

My opinion. Focus on prevention training. Not recovery training.

Where average PPL Joe is likely to accidentally enter a spin is during low speed / low altitude maneuvers where any sort of recovery is virtually impossible - such as the turn to final (I'm usually at around 600-500ft AGL, there is no way I will be able to survive that regardless of how many spins I have completed at 4.500ft in training)

Rather, make students and private pilots doing their annual checks more proficient in identifying the onset of a spin, why skidding/tight turns are terribad and where the danger areas are for the phases of your flight in regards to spins. Some of my annuals has been a few stalls, slow flight in various configs while maintaining altitude. But no refresher about the topic of spins. Not even mentioned.

I have, fwiw, done spins in two different airframes. None of which I regularly fly as a PPL holder. To be honest, I have a hard time gauging how valuable that training actually was. Flying is a perishable skill. Spin recovery and other advanced maneuvers particularly so.

Edited December 19, 20241 yr by SAS443

On 12/18/2024 at 12:22 AM, abrams_tank said:

Could it be that 3rd party developers wanted access to the base weather data for tilt?

Jorg more or less implied that 3rd party developers cannot get access to the base weather data because MeteoBlue won't allow it.  I believe Jorg wanted to discuss this with MeteoBlue again but it's understandable if MeteoBlue doesn't want their data exposed to anybody who can read it by just using the MSFS SDK.

The question you should ask in the PMDG forum is whether PMDG is missing tilt for the weather radar.  If it's only tilt that they are missing, then this might be solved if it's provided in the MSFS SDK. The statement above is very generic from Mathjis Kok, he is not specific about what PMDG is missing for a weather radar.  For all we know, Mathjis Kok could be referring to tilt, which is what the other 3rd party developers are missing for a proper weather radar.

The weather radar issue will be answered eventually but currently there are more pressing issues in running PMDG products in MSFS2024.  After these are addressed, finer issues like weather radar will have their turn......thanks.

10 hours ago, SAS443 said:

Rather, make students and private pilots doing their annual checks more proficient in identifying the onset of a spin, why skidding/tight turns are terribad and where the danger areas are for the phases of your flight in regards to spins.

For me, the fact that this happened in training while flying dual that day probably saved my life.  By this time I had about 15 hours of solo time and we were doing some refreshers on stalls.  Even though we were at a safe altitude for this, I did not recognize that we were in a spin - my brain was seeing something for the first time and I had a disconnect.

Even though we had gone over the recovery procedures in class, that didn't help me recognize what was happening.  Spin recovery training in the aircraft is the best way to do this and is mandatory in some countries.  Back then, early 70's, the FBO's classroom had no multimedia outside of an overhead projector.  I'm guessing that today there are good flat screens and media to show these things (recorded from flight) that make teaching recognition and response much better.

In the same manner that I had already become proficient in recovering from climbing, turning, power-on stalls (which usually responded with a wing-drop), applying opposite rudder along with the other steps for that type of stall recovery are almost identical to spin recovery - I simply didn't recognize the situation I was in as I had never experienced it.

That's why I'm still an advocate for some hands-on spin training.

Edited December 19, 20241 yr by RandallR

Hmm, personally ill refrain from praising MSFS updated flight model engine after doing several tests in 2024, 2020, (and in other sims to see their behavior). I'm realizing in MSFS 2020 and 2024, you really don't have to alerion into wind when landing in an extreme direct crosswinds. Using other sims as reference, you need to aileron into wind in extreme crosswinds, otherwise a pod/wing strike becomes very possible. Most noticeably in tubeliners. I feel like never once have I pod struck or got anywhere close to that in MSFS despite all my almost drunken crosswind landings. And both 2020 and 2024 feel about the same in this regard.

Obviously I'm no real world pilot, but me pulling off decent 25 gusting 30 knot crosswind landings in the Fenix, Iniplanes, and default planes all without or barely needing to alerion into wind even without spoilers to dump lift, is a bit suspect. The only time I need to alerion into wind is in lighter GA aircraft.

Overall its an improvement, but I think there is much to improve upon.

Edited December 21, 20241 yr by FedDriver

On 12/19/2024 at 5:02 PM, SAS443 said:

My opinion. Focus on prevention training. Not recovery training.

Where average PPL Joe is likely to accidentally enter a spin is during low speed / low altitude maneuvers where any sort of recovery is virtually impossible - such as the turn to final (I'm usually at around 600-500ft AGL, there is no way I will be able to survive that regardless of how many spins I have completed at 4.500ft in training)

Rather, make students and private pilots doing their annual checks more proficient in identifying the onset of a spin, why skidding/tight turns are terribad and where the danger areas are for the phases of your flight in regards to spins. Some of my annuals has been a few stalls, slow flight in various configs while maintaining altitude. But no refresher about the topic of spins. Not even mentioned.

I have, fwiw, done spins in two different airframes. None of which I regularly fly as a PPL holder. To be honest, I have a hard time gauging how valuable that training actually was. Flying is a perishable skill. Spin recovery and other advanced maneuvers particularly so.

Totally agree. I've got a lot of hours on my PPL.amd never did spin training. Prevention is better than cure ! Although I know the recovery technique.

9 hours ago, petejohno1 said:

Totally agree. I've got a lot of hours on my PPL.amd never did spin training. Prevention is better than cure ! Although I know the recovery technique.

I disagree.  It’s mandatory in Canada and you have to enter and recover from a spin on your CPL flight test.  
 

There’s nothing dangerous about it.  

Agree with this - the day before my spin I was pract

1 hour ago, ATRguy said:

I disagree.  It’s mandatory in Canada and you have to enter and recover from a spin on your CPL flight test.  
 

There’s nothing dangerous about it.  

Agree with this - the day prior to my spin I was practicing the same maneuvers solo and probably would have died if one of my wing-drops continued over into the same spiral.  Flying with proper coordination was second-hand to me, but I can verify that I didn't comprehend what was happening in that moment.

On 12/21/2024 at 5:53 PM, FedDriver said:

Hmm, personally ill refrain from praising MSFS updated flight model engine after doing several tests in 2024, 2020, (and in other sims to see their behavior). I'm realizing in MSFS 2020 and 2024, you really don't have to alerion into wind when landing in an extreme direct crosswinds. Using other sims as reference, you need to aileron into wind in extreme crosswinds, otherwise a pod/wing strike becomes very possible. Most noticeably in tubeliners. I feel like never once have I pod struck or got anywhere close to that in MSFS despite all my almost drunken crosswind landings. And both 2020 and 2024 feel about the same in this regard.

Obviously I'm no real world pilot, but me pulling off decent 25 gusting 30 knot crosswind landings in the Fenix, Iniplanes, and default planes all without or barely needing to alerion into wind even without spoilers to dump lift, is a bit suspect. The only time I need to alerion into wind is in lighter GA aircraft.

Overall its an improvement, but I think there is much to improve upon.

Alright I decided to do another test where I intentionally raise my wing to show the underside of my wing to a strong 25-35 knot Xwind its just not getting any type of response I expect.

In case anyone doesnt know the behavior I'm referring to is this and this

Edited December 24, 20241 yr by FedDriver

5 hours ago, FedDriver said:

Alright I decided to do another test where I intentionally raise my wing to show the underside of my wing to a strong 25-35 knot Xwind its just not getting any type of response I expect.

In case anyone doesnt know the behavior I'm referring to is this and this

Are you sure you don't have "assistance" options turned ON ?

I am very critic about many aspects of the MSFS flight dynamics, but honestly I find "crosswind physics" acceptably modeled in pretty much all aircraft I have tried ?

I'd say the ideal lays probably between the overdone effects in X-Plane and the tamer ones in MSFS when the full undercarriage is already in contact with the ground, and the aircraft in it's rollout. In X-Plane sometimes it is simply impossible to control my Toliss A321 N or the A319, or the Zibo 737, because even far from max demonstrated x-wind they still fight against me to flip on their back if I don't keep using full against the wind aileron... In MSFS 2020 they introduced a trick, also used for instance in DSC World, and which I wasn't yet able to determine if it's ported to FS 2024, where the normal and axial wind components are tuned, actually just the normal one, making it starting to "evanesce" bellow a given ground speed... That's why at slow speeds you can taxi the aircraft in DCS World and in FS 2020 and apparently in FS 2024 too, without having to use proper taxi with x-wind techniques, specially if in taildraggers.

BTW, in X-Plane, while there is also some "dampening" if the ground level wind speed ( justified as a result of friction near the ground and that should actually depend on the type of surface... but it's not modeled with such detail FAIK ), the normal component of x-wind is always present and makes taxiing closer to reality.

Out of curiosity two simulator I've used and appear to model the closer to RL taxiing and landing / taking off with crosswinds were Aerowinx PSX and IL-2 Great Battles. Taxiing those tricky WW2 taildraggers in IL-2 under strong x-wind was really really tricky and had to be done using RW techniques for taildraggers ground operations under x-wind: Principles #1 - Wind While Taxiing

 

 

Edited December 24, 20241 yr by jcomm

From a real life pilot who formerly flew the DC-10 and now flies Gulfstream business jets:

Quote

One, the flight model has been great. Even some of the free premium deluxe aircraft handle nicely. Compared to real flight, the aircraft have that natural realistic feel to them now. The turbulence has been realistic as well. The planes behave in a manner that I am used to in reality. We are getting better in this aspect. When you are in bumpy weather on short approach and you have to work to keep the wings level, it makes you smile. I was flying the A330 into KMIA one evening and noticed the response to turbulence while hand flying. The ground control is very good now. In 2020, I find myself dancing on the rudder during takeoff and landing. All the tweaking I had to do to get something acceptable. But, in 2024, I don't need FSUIPC anymore and the rudder behaves well during crosswind takeoffs and landings. I can set that rudder and track centerline smoothly. If there is a twitchy aircraft, I can easily adjust the rudder curve making it smoother. This is key when dealing with crosswinds with gusts. You can actually notice the change in required rudder as speed changes on the runway.

Source:

 

Edited December 27, 20241 yr by abrams_tank

On 12/18/2024 at 10:02 PM, SAS443 said:

My opinion. Focus on prevention training. Not recovery training.

 Flying is a perishable skill. Spin recovery and other advanced maneuvers particularly so.

Why does it have to be one or the other? It should be both!

Remembering what you read about 'prevention training' is a perishable memory. I have great muscle memory, so I don't think my stick and rudder skills are perishable.     

On 12/17/2024 at 11:07 PM, zachlog said:

Are you saying that weather data for the development of true weather radar is available in MSFS2024 ?  I think this is an important issue and I am interested an feedback

Both MSFS2020 and 2024 have an api available to create a weather radar that detects precipitation within a cloud layer. This has been available for developers to use for around three years now and you can find examples in many stock and third party aircraft.

This works with the live weather that the sim provides natively. The WXR reads a 3D cone of precipitation ahead of the aircraft and has changeable range. What the api in 2020 did not provide was a tilt mechanism. This appears to have been corrected for 2024.

Neither FSX nor P3D had native live weather but they did have the ability to allow third parties such as Active Sky to inject it into the sim. This was what enabled WXR in both those sims.

The contoversy over weather in MSFS centres around access to live weather through the sim. Microsoft have an agreement with a weather provider but this agreement does not appear to extend to allow third parties like Active Sky to tap into this live weather source within the sim.

The PMDG forums are actually one of the most unreliable sources of information about this subject as their main mouthpiece was evidently unaware that MSFS provided an api to create this. The recently released 777 does have working WXR using the Asobo api after the many, many requests from their customers became too large to ignore. This is due to make it's way to the 737 at some point.  

1 hour ago, DD_Arthur said:

The contoversy over weather in MSFS centres around access to live weather through the sim. Microsoft have an agreement with a weather provider but this agreement does not appear to extend to allow third parties like Active Sky to tap into this live weather source within the sim.

Activesky provides its own data. Why should they need to “tap into” MS providers big secrets?

I have seen this excuse being repeated again and again but it doesn’t make any sense other than MS is trying to sandbox core elements from third party developers.

Edited December 27, 20241 yr by ha5mvo