6 hours ago, JonathanC said:

You know that if 50000 people have 2-3 issues with the game, it doesn’t mean one person has 150,000 issues?
 

No one is saying there aren’t bugs - but as an individual, the bugs I’m running into are vastly outweighed by the benefits of the new sim. 
 

why don’t you try it for yourself instead of going by what you read on social media? Maybe your experience will be horrible and maybe it won’t.
 

By  cherry picking stuff from YouTube or wherever, you are missing out on an amazing experience. 
 

 

I'm not trying to be flippant. But I have to ask. What *exactly* are the "vast" and "amazing" benefits of 24 vs 20? AI aircraft still looks broken, ATC still sounds broken, I'm not seeing scenery that blows 20 away since I can run 20 at ULTRA with high FPS -and  24 looks largely the same except for the blue filter - cities are still melted, etc right? The ship traffic is broken. I've had 3 CTDs and two "can't get into servers." 

Look, I know 24 is the way forward, and in two years, most of us will have migrated to it. There's no denying that. But somehow, right now, I feel like the emperor has no clothes.

Am I wrong? My wife tells me I'm wrong most of the time, so it's okay. But please point out specifics.

Happy Thanksgiving

Mike T.

Edited November 28, 20241 yr by Mike T

Seems some people here need to go read the official forums bug areas, literally hundreds of bugs reported and many of them so 🤦‍♂️ it's unbelievable. It's got nothing to do with the feeling at AVSim or Reddit or Social Media it's the whole picture, the Sim was very very clearly released in an Early Access state that much is obvious. 

So in essence I'll doff my cap when I see the performance improvements they promised, but primarily when/if they fix the game breaking VR issues that - yet again - should never of been allowed to release in the state they are.

See

Let's see what these next couple of hot fixes actually fix, then the picture of their intent will become much clearer.

1 hour ago, Mike T said:

I'm not trying to be flippant. But I have to ask. What *exactly* are the "vast" and "amazing" benefits of 24 vs 20? AI aircraft still looks broken, ATC still sounds broken, I'm not seeing scenery that blows 20 away since I can run 20 at ULTRA with high FPS -and  24 looks largely the same except for the blue filter - cities are still melted, etc right?

It depends where you are flying, the terrain is definitely higher resolution in several places. I just flew over a lesser known place, Palo Duro Canyon in Texas expecting it to look like 2020, and just like the Grand Canyon the textures are entirely enhanced. The trees also are the correct biome, though there are too many. Several places in Colorado, Idaho, Washington State, and Oregon look way better. For instance, Bend - OR looks entirely different in 2024.

Now if you want to see some of the best 2024 has to offer, I suggest flying around Wales, specifically Lake District National Park. Other than that, we have Career mode now, and almost every take-off and landing looks WAY better with the new trees.

I’m not here to sell MSFS 2024 to you - I’m a fellow simmer having a great time in a sim that blows away every sim that I’ve used in the last 20 years. 

If you aren’t seeing any improvements, I guess you’re either looking at different things (VR) or else your experience is just different from mine.

If you don’t see scenery improvements and feel it looks just like 2020, or there are other major issues that are game breaking for you .. well just stick with 2020!

I’m not going to try and evangelize 2024 to people who don’t like it or can’t use it or whatever. I’d just like to discuss this exciting new sim with people who are actually having fun with it. 

9 hours ago, JonathanC said:

why don’t you try it for yourself instead of going by what you read on social media? Maybe your experience will be horrible and maybe it won’t.

I was on the  fence on  getting  2024 after  watching  all the  reviews on  the  first week,  decided  to get  it  thru steam installed it  no issues,  havnt had  any issues  in running  the  sim   havnt  had  the band  error  as  of  yet, still getting  grips  with  the  views  etc  but  surely iam getting  on  top of  them.  There  are  some  bugs  as  previous  posters  have mentioned  but iam  sure  in  the  next  few  months most of  them  will be  resolved.  So  don't  go  by  the  reviews  you see  on utube the  only  review  should  be  your  self on  how  it  run,  on  my low  end pc(gtx 1080ti card)  specs  it  runs quite  well   till i upgrade  to  a  new  pc

2 hours ago, Alpine Scenery said:

Now if you want to see some of the best 2024 has to offer, I suggest flying around Wales, specifically Lake District National Park. Other than that, we have Career mode now, and almost every take-off and landing looks WAY better with the new trees.

The Lake District National Park is in northwest England, not Wales

5 hours ago, Mike T said:

I'm not trying to be flippant. But I have to ask. What *exactly* are the "vast" and "amazing" benefits of 24 vs 20? AI aircraft still looks broken, ATC still sounds broken, I'm not seeing scenery that blows 20 away since I can run 20 at ULTRA with high FPS -and  24 looks largely the same except for the blue filter - cities are still melted, etc right? The ship traffic is broken. I've had 3 CTDs and two "can't get into servers." 

Look, I know 24 is the way forward, and in two years, most of us will have migrated to it. There's no denying that. But somehow, right now, I feel like the emperor has no clothes.

Am I wrong? My wife tells me I'm wrong most of the time, so it's okay. But please point out specifics.

Happy Thanksgiving

Mike T.

Happy Thanksgiving Mike. For me, I havent experience one crash and the sim loads every time. I use SayIntentions (PilotEdge as well but its not ready for 2024 yet) and I dont use AI since I fly small GA I fly mostly the uncontrolled and Class D airports which arent always that active in the 1st place. I have my settings in 2024 set on Ultra thanks to my investment into a great system.

I agree with you that 2024 is not mature on release and in two short years it will certainly shine bright. I mean Asobo has stated they are planning a few patches and updates already. So what are the vast and amazing benefits of 24 you ask? Well to me it relies heavy on the visuals. The lighting and atmosphere are a huge part but also the level of terrain detail. I havent flown in the mountains yet, just around foothills of So-Cal and the California shoreline but the ridges are so crisp and plentyful with the rock and vegetation matching properly. Dirt roads up hilltops are crisp looking and aren't overlays anymore which really makes a subtle but huge difference. The detail doesnt end at a the fence line anymore. Approaches can be spectacular. I wish I had taken a photo of my approach into KEKA last night right at sunset.

I did take these two shots of holding short at Redding and admiring seeing the mountains so far away in detail while up close on the right of the taxiway you see the small rocks and such. Then and enroute pic of the various shades along the ridges but what you cant see because these are photos taken of my computer screen with a cellphone camera is how the lighting is casting diffused shadows behind the peaks.

 

 

While all the eye candy dominates there is still improved environmental physics and flight physics. This is all for just free flight with me staying with land based airplanes. I have yet to explore gliders or seaplanes. I've enjoyed doing the career mode flights as well. So to sum up, the amazing is for sure going to be the visuals and vast is going to be the improvements to the physics modeling for me.

3 hours ago, pete_auau said:

So  don't  go  by  the  reviews  you see  on utube the  only  review  should  be  your  self on  how  it  run,...

Those videos are just for the clicks. They need to get a reaction out of you in order for you to want to watch them. It the video title was having a blast in MSFS2024 and the video was just flying in the sim then that would be boring to watch.

2 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

The Lake District National Park is in northwest England, not Wales

Right, it's closer to due north of Wales, same difference 😛

 

https://www.thegamer.com/microsoft-flight-simulator-2024-worst-reviewed-xbox-title-on-steam/

 

But hats off to them, they should be commended 😉 

And the article has the data behind their headline...  Have MS officially enabled reviews yet?  

I am not trying to be flippant or happy about this either but these are not things they will be bragging to their bosses about.  Unfortunately the opportunity blown here is tremendous which could be detrimental to the long term success of the project within MS who are purely bean counters...  It's also the pure facts behind this release as it stands unfortunately and the article dives into how other platforms have turned this around in the past.  It's not just clickbait.

Edited November 28, 20241 yr by psolk

12 minutes ago, psolk said:

But hats off to them 😉

Children throwing a tantrum because they can’t have what they want when they want it is not necessarily an accurate description of reality.

People are entitled and when their expectations are not met they lash out via reviews.

Most reviews are made by dissatisfied people - overall for all services and products - only a fraction from overly satisfied customers.

In between, there’s a sea of people that are okay or mildly disappointed, but not to the hyperbolic extents being reported.

It’s always good to not believe everything you read…

Edited November 28, 20241 yr by Los

Xbox and steam....two words that are heavily geared towards gamers who have two investments (a console and a gamepad) and not simmers who have an understanding of the history of the series and how to manage expectations and are known to tinker with the files to customize it for their system and all their addons and hardware peripherals.  So yeah looking at the sim through their eyes, its not a "game" that you just jump into the action. Also while I turned off all the assistant controls, if they still are expected to hold heading and altitude on the same degree of precision in career mode training lessons using just a gamepad, I totally could see how theres little fun to the sim for that style of use.

45 minutes ago, Los said:

Children throwing a tantrum because they can’t have what they want when they want it is not necessarily an accurate description of reality.

People are entitled and when their expectations are not met they lash out via reviews.

Most reviews are made dissatisfied by people - overall for all services and products - only a fraction from overly satisfied customers.

In between, there’s a sea of people that are okay or mildly disappointed, but not to the hyperbolic extents being reported.

It’s always good to not believe everything you read…

Not to believe it?  Children throwing a tantrum?  Sure, just live in denial but did you even read the article?  It also provides the data and it presents a very real concern but as simmers I think we all hope this doesn't determine the long term success of the sim. 

It is also based on overall positive reviews not negative reviews to which the most successful releases are in the 95% positive range so apparently people do post when they are happy as well and kind of destroys your most reviews are made by dissatisfied people theory.  They also post when they are overwhelming pleased. 

 

Quote

Game	Year	Review
Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024	2024	39 Percent
Forza Motorsport	2023	43 Percent
Minecraft Legends	2023	59 Percent
ReCore: Definitive Edition	2018	61 Percent
Zoo Tycoon	2018	64 Percent
Ara: History Untold	2024	66 Percent
Battletoads	2020	69 Percent
Halo Infinite	2021	70 Percent
Rush: A Disney Pixar Adventure	2018	70 Percent
Gears 5	2019	71 Percent
Gears Tactics	2020	75 Percent
We Happy Few	2018	76 Percent

 

Edited November 28, 20241 yr by psolk

30 minutes ago, Ident said:

Xbox and steam....two words that are heavily geared towards gamers who have two investments (a console and a gamepad) and not simmers who have an understanding of the history of the series and how to manage expectations and are known to tinker with the files to customize it for their system and all their addons and hardware peripherals.  So yeah looking at the sim through their eyes, its not a "game" that you just jump into the action. Also while I turned off all the assistant controls, if they still are expected to hold heading and altitude on the same degree of precision in career mode training lessons using just a gamepad, I totally could see how theres little fun to the sim for that style of use.

It is X-Box releases on Steam which includes everyone here installing via Steam on a PC it is not XBox reviews.  It is not Console or gamepad reviews at all, you obviously chose to generalize the reviewers rather than read the article...

Again, this is not good for any simmer and I hope it's not indicative of the long term success of the sim of course, no simmer would ever want a sim to fail, it just re-iterates at the end of the day this is a business and people with spreadsheets make decisions on spending based on the success of the platform.  So yes, let ALL hope they can turn it around for all of our long term benefit.  Otherwise it's bad for everyone if they can't make streaming work long term because there is really no going back with the level of details they've achieved.

Let's also keep in mind if there are potentially millions of simmers out there and Avsim has I believe 250,000 lifetime members we are NEVER the majority consensus for the success of the platform.  We are a minority and if it flops elsewhere it can have very real ramifications for all of us.  Some of us have been around long enough to remember when MS killed off what was their most successful selling platform for two decades.   

 

 

Edited November 28, 20241 yr by psolk

29 minutes ago, psolk said:

 you obviously chose to generalize the reviewers rather than read the article...

no simmer would ever want a sim to fail

 

 

I dont need to read a review when I have the actual product and have my own take on the product. In my use of the product its a homerun if its meeting or exceeding my expectations and have zero negative impact to my enjoyment, which is the case. So to me, the sim has not failed.  Nor when using it, do I even see where any negative statements about it are coming from. I do agree that there was a short term negative that has impacted the casual gamer at launch with a few lingering minor issues and that if Asobo doesnt act fast with patches that could be something that turns into some long term scaring resulting is revenue impact. However, they seem to be on that as well.

Yet heres my take, how many of these xbox users are trying/using it on gamepass where they own it by default and it cost them nothing. A product that they tried and didnt like but later can try again. Asobo owns the hardcore simmers attention and while not every MSFS2020, P3D or XPlane user is ready to make the switch or add it to their collection of software they use, they also arent going to loss them forever either.

I know nothing about steam except I use it for games that arent available on DVD or from the actual developer. I honestly dont understand the logic of any simmer who buys XPlane or MSFS on steam adding an extra layer between the developer and end user.

First impressions have already happened, thats the past. All reviewers will do well if they want to talk about the past as people are drawn to conflict and drama. This thread is not about.