I have been involved in flight Simulation since the days of the Link Trainer (yes, I am old). I have owned most of the significant computer simulators since the Bruce Artwick Sublogic simulator around 1979, including the Lockheed Martin 3D and all flight simulator versions of Microsoft Flight Simulator. I now have the latest X-Plane 12 and MSFS 2020-2024. There have been tremendous improvements, especially in graphics. So, I am down to the latest three and feel qualified to comment on them. 

X-Plane 12 is an excellent Flight Simulator. The graphics are not as good as those in Microsoft versions but still excellent. Its aircraft flight dynamics are superior to those in Microsoft, and if your goal is to learn to fly and maintain your flying abilities, this simulator is for you. 

MSFS2020 has been moved to a simulation that seems more focused on gaming support. This means there's a greater emphasis on features that make the simulator more entertaining and accessible to a wider audience rather than just being a tool for learning and practising flying. It is still an excellent simulator, but the aircraft dynamics are functional but poor. The graphics are excellent but far from perfect compared to the real world. 

MSFS2024 is just starting, and it's unfair to criticise too much, but why did they make significant changes to the basic keyboard and Joystick configuration? These changes have made setting up and using the controls more difficult, even after hours of tweaking. The Aircraft dynamics are also not up to par. For instance, if you get in a 172 exterior view and watch the rudder function, you'll notice that it's nowhere near a true representation of actual aerodynamics. Pitty, the poor passengers.

I feel the graphics in 2024 are inferior to 2020.  I have not had time to compare the world, but the topography in my area is way inferior to that of 2020. There is good vegetation but too much. An open golf course with few trees is simulated like a golf course in a forest. 

Hopefully, things will improve, but if I want to fly technically, I fly X-Plane 12. If I want to have fun and go somewhere I have never been, I use MSFS 2020. Until they clean up 2024, I leave it on my hard drive to rest. 

That’s where I am.

Well ok…

-B

19 minutes ago, sobor said:

That’s where I am.

99% of your post is my view too, I run 3 sims right now but p3d /fsx instead of xplane. If someone ordered me to install a 4th sim it would be xplane not FS2024. 

I sight see mostly in 2020 and am very grateful for that opportunity. When the weather turns ifr or if I'm careless enough to let night fall I don't feel like I'm flying at all anymore. 

Flying at night or in bad weather in p3d /fsx I feel genuine anxiety that something bad might happen if I don't concentrate on the navigation and aviation theory. I can't SEE anything outside the window but it FEELS more real than anything in 2020. 

37 minutes ago, sobor said:

I feel the graphics in 2024 are inferior to 2020.

How about some reasons why? 

What I see in 2024 is a logical upgrade to 2020.  Better ground resolution leading to more realism with aircraft/ground dynamics. The higher ground resolution allows pebbles, rocks, cracks etc which means many more areas are not suitable for an aircraft.  The increased ground resolution is also is more realistic for the helicopter pilots - more ground texture and clutter is helpful when near the ground.  Weather has been improved with more cloud types, including cirrus and stratus types - again an upgrade over 2020.

I used to rave about XP12 lighting, but that has now been improved in 2024.  

Edited December 7, 20241 yr by MrBitstFlyer

39 minutes ago, sobor said:

The graphics are excellent but far from perfect compared to the real world. 

If that is your view, you must think XP12 default graphics are awful.  To make them anywhere near 2024 the user must install many addons and download huge amounts of satellite imagery - I know because I have XP12 with all the addons.

If the graphics in 2020 are an A, then 2024 is A+++ in my opinion. And the 172 flies easier in 2024, and yet it is more alive and dynamic, feels wonderful when hand flying. In other words, more realistic to the real world. In the real world you don't have to fight the controls to land a plane as much as 2020. Aviation would be very dangerous if that were not true.

41 minutes ago, sobor said:

MSFS2020 has been moved to a simulation that seems more focused on gaming support.

What do you consider a 'gaming' aspect in 2024, and why do you believe these additions have taken away any simulation aspect? 

The way I see it, you are just trying to start a trolling war. Why not post your XP raves on the XP forum where you will get applause? 

I agree with most of what you say, and I too am a earlier adopter of flying sims from a long time ago. The flight modelling question bears discussion. Any sim's flight behaviour is absolutely reliant on each aircraft's individual tuning far more than any in-built notional flight model. There are good X plane f/ms and there are bad ones. Neither X plane or the FS series have an inherent or native flight model. Each aircraft is individually tuned (or should be). 

I wish this myth that a certain sim has a "better" flight dynamic could be debunked. Almost any aircraft can be made to fly well using the tools available, and they do not have to be that sophisticated. In fact I have found that most of them can perform well with tweaks to around 30 parameters, not hundreds.

You and many others.

The way I see it your way is just another of the many rants I've seen this week.

 

17 minutes ago, robert young said:

The flight modelling question bears discussion. Any sim's flight behaviour is absolutely reliant on each aircraft's individual tuning far more than any in-built notional flight model. There are good X plane f/ms and there are bad ones. Neither X plane or the FS series have an inherent or native flight model. Each aircraft is individually tuned (or should be). 

I wish this myth that a certain sim has a "better" flight dynamic could be debunked. Almost any aircraft can be made to fly well using the tools available, and they do not have to be that sophisticated. In fact I have found that most of them can perform well with tweaks to around 30 parameters, not hundreds.

Blimey, the most sensible thing I’ve seen written on a flightsim forum….ever.

I am not asking anybody to agree or disagree with me. This is a comment on what I see personally. I am willing to learn, so if any good Vidio or articles have helped you improve your experience with any of the sims, please direct us all. 

18 hours ago, sobor said:

I am not asking anybody to agree or disagree with me

Agreed (oops!) but a thread with only ONE opinion in it wouldn't be very interesting to read would it? Without rebuttal/agreement it could be taken as FACT too.

19 hours ago, sloppysmusic said:

Flying at night or in bad weather in p3d /fsx I feel genuine anxiety that something bad might happen if I don't concentrate on the navigation and aviation theory. I can't SEE anything outside the window but it FEELS more real than anything in 2020. 

Pretty much the same for me as well. I can't quite put my finger on it.

It's a bit weird with the graphics also, perhaps my vision is a bit askew. I only have FSX SE and MSFS2020. For a while I was switching back and forth between the two quite frequently.

I remember a few particular flights. One was going into Greenland's main airport in the summer. FSX looked way better to me than 2020. I compared with recent photos, no snow and ice. FSX seems to do a better job with seasons.

Then flying into Sapporo in winter, I guess the New Chitose airport is kind of out there in the fields, the landscape in FSX seemed almost nicer than in 2020.

But it was one flight into John Wayne Orange County with all the freeways and suburban sprawl where I suddenly realized, wait a second, FSX graphics can't come close to 2020 there, that just looked awful in FSX.

But back to the feeling. A night time departure in FSX out of Singapore in the PMDG 747-400, massive thunderstorms all around (Active Sky). I was heavy near MTOM. Such an exhilarating feeling. Retracted the flaps too early, crazy turbulence, crashed, but it felt great! Haven't come close to replicating that feeling in 2020.

I'm deliberating going for X Plane next instead of 2024. Graphics are important, but they aren't everything. Then again there's still plenty of time to iron things out in 24.

Meanwhile I've somewhat grudgingly accepted 2020 as my main sim. The feeling is certainly not all bad. And it has grown on me. Like memorizing Pi, or trying to count to infinity, anyway no sim will ever entirely match reality.

Debating the realism of Flight Models between all of the different Sims currently available can literally a Sub Forum in itself.

The important thing is... if whatever Sim Platform you use brings you enjoyment and challenges you, it's all that matters.

🙂