4 hours ago, Bernard Ducret said:

Ray, I don't know if your remarks are for 2020 or 2024, I am still on 2020 until such time I feel 2024 offers the same stability and all my add-ons are supported, then I will make the move

My Aivlasoft remarks related to 2024 as the product is no longer for sale so there’s no chance of it ever working. It does work with 2020 but there seems little point buying a sim no longer under active development.

4 hours ago, Bernard Ducret said:

and as far as airports add-ons are concerned, most of the reputable developers do pay some attention to their AFCAD.

The problem being ScruffyDuck has also retired so without a functioning AFCAD editor you’re at the mercy of the author. No possibility of correcting anything including runway designations although for such changes you would hope the author will update his work.

4 hours ago, Bernard Ducret said:

The only part where I sympathise with your feelings is about being dependent on a working server that is not under my control, fortunately MSFS 2024 will become similar to 2020 so all your software will remain on your hard disk, only the world scenery will be delegated to the goodwill of Microsoft servers, and that I can live with, whereas the initial total streaming concept of 2024 was an absolute no-go for me.

If that’s how things are planned that’s encouraging. I know there are two ways of buying airports. Via the marketplace and direct from the author. I would favour the latter as he gets more money and updates appear quicker. We still need an AFCAD editor though. Any signs of one?

4 hours ago, Bernard Ducret said:

now with the high fidelity of the Bing world rendering, I switched to mostly GA flights because I can visualise the real sceneries I have known in the real world.

That’s what I’ve always thought it best for and because I fly relatively few VFR flights 2020 was never considered a priority. But maybe that was because P3D never lent itself to VFR without buying a lot of addon scenery which only covered small parts of the world. I do like the occasional VFR flight in the Carenado PC12 and Vertx DA62.

4 hours ago, Bernard Ducret said:

I realise that - in your case - flying Concorde at 60'000 feet will reduce or negate the interest of this aspect, not to mention that whenever you take off and land with that wonderful aircraft, there is no time to contemplate any scenery at all however beautiful it may be...

Got it in one! That is one aircraft you cannot take your attention away from especially when on approach and landing. 190kts until 500ft reducing to 157kts for the landing with autothrottles cancelled at 15ft and pitched up 10°. Somewhat different to an Airbus or Boeing.

Best plan appears to buy 2024 when it’s stable and fly VFR in a few aircraft leaving the IFR ones for P3D with a slow considered switch over. P3D will remain on my system as a fallback.

Aivlasoft installed for MS2020 is working with FS2024!

When you start the EFB Server you will get a warning "Database disagree, would you like to start the DatabaseBuilder?". Don't do it. Start the Client anyway and and push the "no" button on the warning twice. The client will then show the plane at the correct position. (FSUIPC is 7.051)

Edited December 22, 20241 yr by agutz

8 hours ago, sloppysmusic said:

RIP flight simulation. It's been replaced by flight simulation simulation. 

MSFS has indeed 'saved' the flight sim community from the stuffy old days of real world accurate physics and aviation science.

We no longer have to suffer planes that have annoying systems that absolutely refuse to behave unless you use a checklist in the right order and can be thankful we now have beautiful liveries and UHD rivets. 

We don't have to be afraid of flying in the dark with our appalling Ifr skills as the whole landscape is lit up in infra red brightness and /or runway lights are visible from the moon now. 

Most of all the frustrating and predictable boring behaviour of sims that always take exactly the same time (usually a minute!) to load up a flight! Where's the fun in that!!? We want to sit in nervous anticipation to see whether the sim will load at ALL today, and when it finally does we can make threads here about our success or failure. 

I could drone on here like your typical old Vater but there is no point as scientific fact has been replaced by social media level opinion. 

It's got NOTHING to with the age of the simmer. It's to do with vision and understanding. We put blinkers on the horse to make him or her run faster in a straight line and not be distracted by what he might see along the route. If you take a step back it's obvious that our most respected devs have embraced compromise and raw sales volume instead of stuck in the mud, old timer, luddite accuracy. 

Simming is for everyone, no issues there. Except the new crowd love to trample on any dissent, especially criticising traditional sims at every turn. It's not enough that they have their world to play in, they won't acknowledge that we have ours too. 

I use fsx, p3d and msfs. My sim is better than my sim which is better than my sim. I'm allowed to make comparisons as I enjoy ALL of them. Each has strengths and weaknesses, to me it's always the individual aircraft that is why I 'fly'. 

If you can't back up your opinion with facts and instead have to fall back on personally insulting the person making the comment your 'views' are what's damaging flight sim discussions, not the existence of other sims. 

Is there anybody here who would let their family members fly on a real world plane designed and built by Asobe /Microsoft? 

I certainly wouldn't want to take a seat on some of the monstrosity fsx Freeware planes out there either but somewhere in the middle lies excellence. Please let me continue to enjoy it ☺️

MSFS not only made a larger user base but also added more con$umer$ and need for more peripherals and software for everyone to choose from which, are becoming more affordable.

That’s a real-life business model (simulation)

It’s just the “game “ of the business 😉

 

Edited December 22, 20241 yr by Stefti

38 minutes ago, agutz said:

Aivlasoft installed for MS2020 is working with FS2024!

When you start the EFB Server you will get a warning "Database disagree, would you like to start the DatabaseBuilder?". Don't do it. Start the Client anyway and and push the "no" button on the warning twice. The client will then show the plane at the correct position. (FSUIPC is 7.051)

Best news  I have heard today and thanks for the top on starting it. Do all the airports and frequencies show up?

Edited December 22, 20241 yr by Bobsk8

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Best plan appears to buy 2024 when it’s stable and fly VFR in a few aircraft leaving the IFR ones for P3D with a slow considered switch over. P3D will remain on my system as a fallback.

Oh my goodness! Nothing like Liverpool stuffing Spurs 6 - 3 away to concentrate the flight simming mind!

Merry Christmas Ray!🫡

3 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

Now, if only they could improve the speed at which updates are cleared for release....

Are you talking about XP12? 😉

Edited December 22, 20241 yr by Stefti

17 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Best news  I have heard today and thanks for the top on starting it. Do all the airports and frequencies show up?

I just tried LSZH and LFSB. Everything is there. It uses the same data as FS2020.

10 hours ago, rick celik said:

From what I’ve gathered from your posts over the last few years, you’re one of the people who are set in their ways and afraid of change. My old man is the same way, towards life in general.

But, it’s the new age of flight simulation, and what you’ll gain from moving to the new sims, far outweigh what you’ll lose from the older ones.

I just done a flight in the Fenix a321 from the Gold Coast to Sydney in MSFS2024, and while the sim needs some work, after an experience like that. There’s no way I’ll ever consider p3d again…. Or even 2020 for that matter. The feel of the aircraft, the atmosphere, the colours, the lighting, the way the runway lights break out from the clouds at dusk. Incredible.
 

But, as they say, it’s up to personal preference. 

I think it's less "afraid of change" and more "I like what I've got and I can't get it anywhere else."

There isn't a Hi Fi Concorde available anywhere else (the Colimata in XP being the next closest thing, but perhaps not quite "Study Level".

There's a few birds I like to fly that are like that. SO GOOD that the other sims have nothing even close to par.

E.g., the MilViz T-38A and ESPECIALLY the T-38C with its literally IRL Military Grade avionics and systems.

The A2A Sims Civilian P-51 (and pretty much everything else they make).

The Helos and Fast Jets in DCS World are not only Study Level by any measure, but many of them aren't even available in other sims, and the ones that are simply pale in comparison.

The AFL King Air in XP soundly trounces the ones available in MSFS, and if you want a study Level C172, well, you can't get one in MSFS.

And so on...

Doesn't mean MSFS isn't a great flight sim, it absolutely is, but there are PLENTY of addons and features in which it's not up to par with what's available in the other sims.

Throw the justified uncertainty around cloud services on top of that, and it starts looking a bit more like prudence rather than fear.

To be clear, I know MS/Asobo will get the latest version straightened out, and that the 3PD's will continue to up their game as Just Flight, Fenix, Leonardo, and PMDG have done.

But there is, by any objective criteria, quite a ways to go before anyone can reasonably claim Utter Dominance by MSFS.

10 hours ago, Aglos77 said:

It is not fear of change is a matter of whether you are satisfied or not and the industry already has it very well studied so that what many of us are satisfied today tomorrow will not, they want every last dollar of your wallet, because it is not just buying the addon or software of the day is also investing a lot of money in new hardware.

 

Many times it is not even money, it is the time you lose in configuring, installing and leaving everything as you want.

Regarding what that guy says I guess it was already difficult to fool his customers by selling the same thing without innovation in other simulators and now he has returned to make money with his usual addons with the usual bugs and problems. Others on the other hand have been advancing and innovating and I never saw them complaining.

 

I agree with your first part but not the second.

This "failure to innovate" meme amuses me whenever I see it.

If one is re-creating an IRL aircraft in a sim, to rather exacting standards, and one has already done it in previous sims, what, exactly is there to "innovate" in the new sim...? 😂

When other developers deliver better Boeings (as iFly appear to have done), our money will follow. In the meantime, though, PMDG still make what are arguably the best iterations in any sim  of the aircraft they offer as add-ons.

10 hours ago, St Mawgan said:

If there is one thing I learned from my old man, don't try to change him or introduce new things. It's pointless. He may find out for himself one day, he may not, but trying to provide a steer is never going to work. Let them do whatever makes them happy, even if they are decades behind the rest of the world. 

As a manager of various teams over many years, Believe me, it has nothing to do with age, and everything to do with character.

9 hours ago, sloppysmusic said:

MSFS has indeed 'saved' the flight sim community from the stuffy old days of real world accurate physics and aviation science.

Youre only right if you're talking about XP... 🤣

But you're talking about FSX and P3D. Neither of which are known for realistic world depiction or intrinsically accurate physics. I mean, heck, "flies on rails" was born from FSX flight models, and P3D doesn't even have real world weather!!!!a

I mean, why do you think A2A Sims rose to fame with AccuSim...?

And given Carenado's popularity in the ESP titles (and the current ones), I'm not sure science and physics are top of mind for the vast majority of simmers -regardless of platform.

But since we have so many of the Top Tier devs working exclusively in MSFS now (not to mention the new ones like Fenix), we're already at a higher level of accurate physics and science.

And as to MS/Asobo Aircraft, Pty., I'm pretty sure they'd do a better job than you ever could.

1 hour ago, DD_Arthur said:

Oh my goodness! Nothing like Liverpool stuffing Spurs 6 - 3 away to concentrate the flight simming mind!

Merry Christmas Ray!🫡

T’was an excellent performance despite conceding three goals. Thanks, same to you and yours. 😁

1 hour ago, agutz said:

I just tried LSZH and LFSB. Everything is there. It uses the same data as FS2020.

But if you don’t have 20 then there appears little chance of it working for 24. Hence why keeping P3D is prudent.

Why is there so much discussion on P3D on a MSFS thread that has nothing to do with P3D? Let’s get back on topic please. 
 

Frankly, reading some of the responses in this thread makes Randazzo’s point extremely clear.  

8 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

That's interesting. I know 2020 had a community folder which could hold your purchased airports. Is that going to be the case with 2024 once things settle down. I thought some 3rd party airports were locked preventing editing. Is that the case or not?

Yes! There's already a community folder in v2024 and it's where my A2A Comanche lives 🙂, copied & pasted over (with a subsequent patch applied.

I haven't brought much of the v2020 scenery over as I'm still exploring and want to keep the new sim as "vanilla" as possible while all the bugs are sorted. But I've seen plenty of reports in re v2020 scenery working fine (presumably smaller airfields without much of the big airport machinery).