1 hour ago, sloppysmusic said:

Is there anybody here who would let their family members fly on a real world plane designed and built by Asobe /Microsoft? 

On the Asobo/Microsoft version of the Citation Longitude? Absolutely! Of course, that one is primarily a creation of the Working Title group who are now part of the Asobo/MS team. 

Default aircraft in MSFS have varying quality. The IniBuilds airbuses are actually quite good for free aircraft, though not on the level of Fenix or FSL.

Ray mentioned that he likes to install AFCADS that give realistic parking positions. You can certainly do that in MSFS 2024. Even though much of the sim is now streamed, there is nothing preventing airports or aircraft built by external developers from being installed locally which override the streamed defaults. 

It’s a fair comment from RSR that is certainly likely to ruffle some feathers.

17 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

One question I'd like answering by those who have switched. Do you have physical harware that requires programming to work in your sim?

I'm thinking of GoFlight and CPFlight in particular since those are expensive bits of kit and in the case of GoFlight having to rely on external support from the likes of Pollypot GIT. Those require a mature SDK to get them to work.

If you don't have such hardware it's a much easier decision I guess.

Yes I have a number of things.  GoFlight MCP PRO and EFIS, both working fine in MSFS using Pollypot’s GFIT.  I used this tool with them in P3D as well, much better than Goflight’s own software and it continues to be updated after GoFlight went out of business.

I also have Airbus specific Skalarki gear, RealSimGar GNS430 and 530, a panel from VirtualFly and one from Logitech, all working great.   None of it was overly difficult to set up once the supporting software was developed.

I know you have your reasons for staying in P3D Ray, but I wouldn’t let hardware be one of them.

6 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

Ray mentioned that he likes to install AFCADS that give realistic parking positions. You can certainly do that in MSFS 2024. Even though much of the sim is now streamed, there is nothing preventing airports or aircraft built by external developers from being installed locally which override the streamed defaults. 

That's interesting. I know 2020 had a community folder which could hold your purchased airports. Is that going to be the case with 2024 once things settle down. I thought some 3rd party airports were locked preventing editing. Is that the case or not?

4 minutes ago, regis9 said:

I know you have your reasons for staying in P3D Ray, but I wouldn’t let hardware be one of them

I'm glad I asked the question, thanks Dave. It was a real shame when GoFlight went under but Steve has done a great job with Pollypot. Without him my expensive hardware would just be a dust gatherer.

3 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

That's interesting. I know 2020 had a community folder which could hold your purchased airports. Is that going to be the case with 2024 once things settle down. I thought some 3rd party airports were locked preventing editing. Is that the case or not?

2024 has a community folder just like 2020 and it works that same way. I was planning a flight yesterday from KLAS to KTUS. I realized before departure that the default KTUS still has the old runway layout. Runway 11R no longer exists, and runway 11L is now runway 12. I grabbed a freeware KTUS update from flightsim.to and installed it. The update was designed for 2020 but seemed to work fine in 2024.

Default streamed assets cannot (yet) be edited, but anything 3rd party certainly can be.

1 hour ago, Sethos said:

Avsim and forums is just a dying breed unfortunately. Most of the activity is on Discord, Facebook and other social media.

Discord, the most unfriendly, horrible communication program. Even Facebook is better.

 

(Before anyone gets hot under the collar, just my opinion, not open to argumentative discussion).

45 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I tend to base decisions on reading independent reviews so if FSHud comes out well might well consider it. Does it run on a networked PC and is it keyboard driven like RC4? Those are important factors for me. The ability to respond to AIG Ai is also important.

If you don't want voice control the UI for FSHud is browser based, or menu based on the Sim computer, so can run on any device (PC, Tablet, Phone) on the network. FSHud itself runs on the Flight Sim PC (MSFS, MSFS 2024 or P3D). You can use keyboard or controller buttons to interact with it, but I just use a mouse to click on the menu items in the browser on a separate PC. When I tried to use the keyboard shortcuts from a remote PC browser it didn't recognise them, but as that was not a priority for me I didn't report it. It might have been fixed since. The models can come from FSLTL or AIG, and it has built-in support for AIG flightplans, so it not only responds to AIG AI, it fully Air Traffic Controls them. It will also control real-time traffic supplied by FSLTL.

Edited December 22, 20241 yr by ConstVoid

3 hours ago, sloppysmusic said:

MSFS has indeed 'saved' the flight sim community from the stuffy old days of real world accurate physics and aviation science.

We no longer have to suffer planes that have annoying systems that absolutely refuse to behave unless you use a checklist in the right order and can be thankful we now have beautiful liveries and UHD rivets. 

<rambling snipped>

Is there anybody here who would let their family members fly on a real world plane designed and built by Asobe /Microsoft?

Na, we no longer have to only accept accurate dynamics/systems *or* visual fidelity *or* feature X/Y/Z... with MSFS 2020 or 2024 that "or" becomes an "and".  And yes, I'd much rather let my family members fly on the various default aircraft in MSFS 2020/2024 than in other sims, given that their fidelity walks all over the others.

Some of those used to sims of old seem to be of the laughable and antiquated mindset that just because a new sim comes along and does features not in their pet sim that said new sim can't also do core sim features. MSFS 2020 already paved the way for that, and MSFS 2024 just takes it to another level. No amount of desperate attempts to cling to the bugginess of 2024 is going to diminish all the advancements it has brought to core flight simulation.

MSFS has indeed catapulted the genre so that I can enjoy the stuffy old days of real world accurate physics, aviation science, systems, avionics, etc ... AND ... also enjoy unprecedented twin earth rendering and visuals, atmospheric lighting, aviation activities/careers, and all the other features that some love to latch on to as the "only" thing that MSFS does well. Those folks are probably also the ones who just can't stand that MSFS came in shook up their stagnant simming world, and drove their pet legacy sim into the realm of irrelevance.
 

Edited December 22, 20241 yr by lwt1971

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

One question I'd like answering by those who have switched. Do you have physical harware that requires programming to work in your sim?

I'm thinking of GoFlight and CPFlight in particular since those are expensive bits of kit and in the case of GoFlight having to rely on external support from the likes of Pollypot GIT. Those require a mature SDK to get them to work.

If you don't have such hardware it's a much easier decision I guess.

Yes, I have the Opencockpit Dual Efis, MCP, NAV, ATC and COM modules running through OI4FS, buttkicker modules using simshaker, VRI overhead using Spad.next, Logitech G13 for custom keystrokes, Aviasoft for remoteCDU's on a client machine and a client machine running FSHUD web interface, Skysim4NG moving map, real time Metar and simbrief and a Brunner FFB yoke... 

To your point, that is part of what is keeping me from 2024.  It all works flawlessly in 2020... 

Edited December 22, 20241 yr by psolk

PMDG makes excellent products, almost flawless.

13 minutes ago, IanHarrison said:

Discord, the most unfriendly, horrible communication program. Even Facebook is better.

 

(Before anyone gets hot under the collar, just my opinion, not open to argumentative discussion).

Glad I'm not the only one who finds Discord to be a hot mess. Aptly named.

59 minutes ago, Sethos said:

Lamentablemente, Avsim y los foros son una especie en extinción. La mayor parte de la actividad se realiza en Discord, Facebook y otras redes sociales.

High fidelity simulation is a dying breed whether we like it or not. Most of us who like this are already very old and this is going to die with us.

 

Younger people live in a world where everything is consumed very quickly, with a few exceptions they don't want to spend weeks reading manuals to fly complex airplanes.

 

That is why Asobo has designed 2024 as it has done to try to retain that type of casual players who make four flights to see their house and their sister-in-law's house because they have it on the gane pass and never return to the simulator again.

4 minutes ago, Aglos77 said:

High fidelity simulation is a dying breed whether we like it or not. Most of us who like this are already very old and this is going to die with us.

Younger people live in a world where everything is consumed very quickly, with a few exceptions they don't want to spend weeks reading manuals to fly complex airplanes.

That is why Asobo has designed 2024 as it has done to try to retain that type of casual players who make four flights to see their house and their sister-in-law's house because they have it on the gane pass and never return to the simulator again.

Are you saying that with a serious face lol? As PMDG, Fenix, A2A, FSL, Just Flight, and various devs make aircraft even more complex than before, how the heck is "high fidelity simulation a dying breed"? 🤣

And I realize this might be a hard concept to get your head around, but let's try... what if, just imagine, a sim platform could accommodate BOTH causal players and "serious" simmers? I know, crazy isn't it?
 

Edited December 22, 20241 yr by lwt1971

5 minutes ago, speedyTC said:

Glad I'm not the only one who finds Discord to be a hot mess. Aptly named.

It seems to be the "thing" that you have to be able to "chat" in real time. I find that a daft idea. Nothing wrong with messages or email.

Hmm? Went from Randazzo interview, to ageism and then multiple attempts to convert Mr.Proudfoot to 2020/2024. Haha.

14 minutes ago, Aglos77 said:

High fidelity simulation is a dying breed whether we like it or not. Most of us who like this are already very old and this is going to die with us.

Younger people live in a world where everything is consumed very quickly, with a few exceptions they don't want to spend weeks reading manuals to fly complex airplanes.

That is why Asobo has designed 2024 as it has done to try to retain that type of casual players who make four flights to see their house and their sister-in-law's house because they have it on the gane pass and never return to the simulator again.

Not sure why you assume the high-fidelity stuff is dying.... but there are plenty of high-fidelity planes in msfs.  2020 has plenty of high fidelity planes. Everyone knows the brands. We don't need to hash out the many reasons why your assumption is incorrect. Just Flight BAe 146, Avro RJ, F28....Fenix 320....PMDG 737 and 777 series.....Black Square planes...A2A. There are more.

As far as the people focused on how the simulator "looks" yes I agree that takes away the point of flight simulation in many way. However, it also adds a lot to it. Visually knowing where you are in VFR conditions is a lot more fun in a sim when you can see the building as it is portrayed nearly in real life. Or, that large hill. Or the car factory. Space needle. The Columbia River. Referencing Troutdale airport vs KPDX as your approaching one of the 28 runways. You can't really do that....see that....in the other sim unless you have a lot of mods, orthotiles and airport mods. MSFS 2020 basically has it all included. The simulation aspect of the planes themselves can always use improvement. But hey....MSFS has only been in business for like 5 years ish total.

2024 has an odd career mode that I'm not entirely sold on but its really not as bad you say it is. Like FSEconomy in a way.

Oh....and if us "youngsters" are wrong then explain why I love reading the plane manuals so much. Reading the DC6 manual was fun the first time.

Edited December 22, 20241 yr by Sonosusto