I'm not saying, with my post above, I can't see and actually enjoy and just as @jon b get amazed by how big the change has been since the release fo FS 2020, for the positive aspects that MSFS brought with it.

Scenery covering the whole world, which together with the astounding graphics that some models offer, all running smooth as silk even on mid-low machines to todays standards like mine, make the time spent trying to optimize FSX and P3D simply ridiculous in comparison... That is indeed a HUGE step fwd!

Today I decided that my Christmas gift - Condorsoaring 3 Pro - will get an added 32 GB RAM in the form of two additional 16 GB DDR4 sticks, to use with FS 2024, because I am now convinced it can run even better with that amount of RAM, and better buy it ASAP while it doesn't get to prohibitive figures 😕

I spent last night doing a flight in the Fenix 320, from LPPR to LPPT, with BATC injecting it's traffic and the traffic models created by FSLTL. Wow! to EVERYTHING! Simply WOW! And those characters interacting with the ATC, from other AI aircraft injected by BATC, with their crew talking in that characteristic Portenglish I am used to listen to in the radio IRL 🙂

FSLTL is free, the scenery which is by far more detailed than anything I could ever try with either P3D or XP, also free, all of the functionality and integration with Navigraph, SimBrief, etc... 

Now I'm just waiting for FSLabs to release it's 321 fro FS 2024 !!!

I can't ask for more, other than better flight dynamics and weather modelling.

These are the many positive sides of MSFS.

Edited December 22, 20241 yr by jcomm

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Just trying to explain why a move would be so difficult for me.

FYI we know already 

There's certainly never been a better time to be a flight simmer, that's for sure. If you think of all the stuff you had to install into P3D to get a reasonable experience and contrast that with MS2024 out of the box, it blows your mind. 

I took a flight in the Fenix A321 today in MS2024 from Frankfurt across to Manchester and there was a heavy rain shower over the departure end of the field, despite the parking stands being dry with the sun poking through. The whole experience was quite amazing and the solid overcast that only started to thin out a bit once crossing the North Sea looked very convincing. 

RSR is correct to say that flight simulation was running out of road, with relatively few new entrants into the scene and P3D becoming a very niche product. Despite the messy launch of 2024, it's clear that the hobby is in rudest health it's been in years.....

Is resisting change such a bad thing if contentment is the reason. Heck, I’ve been married to the same woman for 52 years and never felt like changing for some newer model. I’ve lived in the same house for forty years and was never big on job hopping when things got tough with employers. I feel this stability in my life bought long term rewards. If some chose not to be led by whoever that’s not necessarily a bad trait. 
I want to add the Randazzo is not the know all say all in all things sim. 

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I’m not afraid of change.

Forgive me Ray but haven’t you just given us a list of why you are afraid of change?

I’ve always been surprised by the view that people have ‘invested’ in software. Personally, I’ve never invested in software I’ve just bought it.

42 minutes ago, Sethos said:

But isn't that part of the 'set in your ways' mentality, I see this exact same reasoning in friends and family that are older than me. They find every excuse along the way not do something, even though that can easily afford it, they have all the time in the world and they know doing some of the stuff they claim to be time consuming is in fact just a few hours of work and then you're set for years. I

I'm trying very hard not to enter into a sim comparison exercise but it's not easy. I'll try to do it in an objective way rather than subjective which I hope you and others will understand.

Firstly, I can see you're considerably younger than me so please take that into account. I've always researched things carefully before making a decision. In my 73 years it's worked well for me both in my working life and now in retirement.

I've totted up the benefits and losses when deciding whether a switch to 2020/2024 is worth it for me given my hardware and software. As things stand the swings are still on the status quo side rather than making the switch. However, that doesn't mean I'm ruling out ever buying 2024. That rather than 2020 is the logical choice.

47 minutes ago, Sethos said:

I seem to recall you talking about your last P3D install taking weeks after you got a new PC, installing all the airports and setting everything up. The time you spent doing that, you could have installed and set up a new simulator and probably in half that time. 

You're absolutely right and that was a pain albeit it only needed doing once. But there's no rule saying you have to have only one sim. Given I'm predominatly a IFR flyer and the visuals aren't the highest priority for me what P3Dv5 offers with EA enabled satisifies me. I'm currently flying Concorde from Lisbon to Manchester in an hour less than other airliners take. It's highly satisfying.

So what I might consider when 2024 becomes stable is to dip my toe and run that for low-level sightseeing which is where it scores highly over P3D. That gives me the opportunity to make an informed decision on whether to switch completely or not.

51 minutes ago, Sethos said:

But it's human nature and P3D works for you, so respect for sticking to what you know and what works. 

Thank you. We all have different priorities.

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

No Radar Contact either.

I was a long-time user of Radar Contact before I took a break from simming (even going back to the days when you had to compile a script each time before you used it), and you may remember that I posted on the support forum shortly after MSFS was released that I'd spent some time trying to see if it would work with it. Obviously it couldn't be made compatible, so I've now tried two different ATC programs, finally settling on FSHud, and there's no way I'd go back to RC now.

Full SID / STAR assignment rather than the pretend option in RC, proper altitude restrictions based on the real navdata rather than the 'cross 40 mile from some arbitrary waypoint near to your destination', full interaction with, and indeed control of, AI traffic rather than simply generating some fake calls based on what RC thinks the in-built AI is trying to do.

I really think when you finally make the change to MSFS 24, or whatever, you'll find that lack of RC is a minor consideration.

Anyway, since this isn't a thread about ATC programs I'll leave it at that.

2 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

Forgive me Ray but haven’t you just given us a list of why you are afraid of change?

I’ve always been surprised by the view that people have ‘invested’ in software. Personally, I’ve never invested in software I’ve just bought it.

I make changes when I've weighed up the pros and cons as any sensible person would do. If I was reluctant to change I would have stayed with FSX when P3D became available. But I switched because it was the logical choice, not a subjective one.

It's not just airports. It's things like Aivlasoft's EFB and the hard work to program GoFlight hardware.

I have a good friend who everyone knows for his software but he stays with P3D because the aircraft he flies in his home cockpit only works with P3D.

All these millions and millions of new people coming to flight simulation, yet still the same 20 people posting on Avsim! 😀

3 hours ago, Fielder said:

Randazzo ! What a funny false name he uses on his forum, LOL!

ok so whats so funny about using his real name on his forum ?

Edited December 22, 20241 yr by pete_auau

12 minutes ago, BMIBaby said:

All these millions and millions of new people coming to flight simulation, yet still the same 20 people posting on Avsim! 😀

Avsim and forums is just a dying breed unfortunately. Most of the activity is on Discord, Facebook and other social media.

If I was a gamer and budding aviation fan and decided to take the plunge in flight simulation with the previous mainstays, it's safe to say I'd be pretty shocked at how 'niche' the experience was. 

It in no way resembles the standards I'd be used to in terms of graphics and user friendliness. That's totally understandable as it's far outside what regular games can do. 

I could imagine sticking with it for a bit but never quite being able to compromise my expectations and walking away. 

Don't think it would ever have died, but it wouldn't have progressed much further than it is now and it's possible investment in development might have dwindled. 

MSFS definitely has its cartoony moments, but that can be addressed if the will is there. 

57 minutes ago, ConstVoid said:

you may remember that I posted on the support forum shortly after MSFS was released that I'd spent some time trying to see if it would work with it. Obviously it couldn't be made compatible, so I've now tried two different ATC programs, finally settling on FSHud, and there's no way I'd go back to RC now.

Your efforts were very much appreciated and it's a pity you couldn't crack it. If only John Dekker had released the VB source code it could have been transformed for MSFS.

I tend to base decisions on reading independent reviews so if FSHud comes out well might well consider it. Does it run on a networked PC and is it keyboard driven like RC4? Those are important factors for me. The ability to respond to AIG Ai is also important.

One question I'd like answering by those who have switched. Do you have physical harware that requires programming to work in your sim?

I'm thinking of GoFlight and CPFlight in particular since those are expensive bits of kit and in the case of GoFlight having to rely on external support from the likes of Pollypot GIT. Those require a mature SDK to get them to work.

If you don't have such hardware it's a much easier decision I guess.

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

 

It's not just airports. It's things like Aivlasoft's EFB and the hard work to program GoFlight hardware.

 

Aivlasoft EFB is probably the one most important thing that will keep me on MS 2020. I truly can't imagine flying without it.