3 hours ago, jon b said:

simmers can find a way of arguing over anything.

No we can’t!

18 minutes ago, scotchegg said:

No we can’t!

I respectfully disagree 😉 

5 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

I don't think XP 12 is going strong. Thrandra, an add-on developer for XP, is on record for saying the numbers for XP were better before MSFS 2020 came out. SteamDB corroborates this because peak XP 12 numbers have still not matched peak XP 11 numbers on SteamDB.  From Thrandra's quote, it appears the best days of XP were in XP 11, probably around the time of the peak numbers for XP 11 on SteamDB.  You can read Thrandra's quote for yourself:

I Kinda think those quotes by Thranda are aging off a bit these days.

While it's absolutely true that XP isn't nearly as popular as MSFS, there are plenty of missives from devs and news from Laminar Research indicating that things are indeed going well these days - at least relatively.

Just Flight have decided to re-invigorate their XP aircraft lineup (with Thranda), SimCoders continue to release new REPs for new add-ons, X-Crafts E-jets are soon to be joined by rebuilt ERJs, Flight Factor's 777 is garnering high praise, there's much buzz about the new X-Aviation CJ, and a steady stream of new helos is appearing.

And Thranda themselves just released a rather lovely looking Pilatus PC-12. Judging by their historical work, it's going to be a good add-on that will likely rival the SWS PC-12 in fidelity&quality.

Unlike when P3D was dying as a consumer sim, we're seeing more add-ons release at higher quality for XP 12 these days - the exact opposite of P3D.

And we know Laminar themselves are hiring, having gotten much bigger since MSFS 2020 launched.

Finally, Steam stats are only relevant to Steam players, and those folks are on Steam for gaming more than for flight sim.

 

Eta: Im going to bet that Thrandas woes are at leased partially based on their choice of add-ons to re-create. Many just aren't exciting, and almost all are piston single engines...

Edited December 23, 20241 yr by UrgentSiesta

Yes MS and Asobo made flight simming better I won't say they saved it. Someone would of stepped in and kept it alive and kicking.

1 hour ago, scotchegg said:

No we can’t!

 

58 minutes ago, psolk said:

I respectfully disagree 😉 

You boys, I know what you’re doing !

1 hour ago, jon b said:

 

You boys, I know what you’re doing !

No you don't...  LOL  

22 hours ago, psolk said:

One for the track and one to tow the other one to the track LOL... 

She's a throaty girl...  https://photos.app.goo.gl/eyW9M6coGtjmgrYi7  

Love the Track 718! 

I've got the same white Macan GTS, 2023 and did the monochrome white on the blades with red GTS logos on the side. Putting her into the shop for a Remus catback / downpipe upgrade next weekend. We have a Porsche Experience down by the airport in Atlanta so I love to take her down there for track day along with the guys from the Atlanta Porsche Club.

We used to have a Porsche customizing legend here in forums before he passed away. B52Drivr, Clay Dopke, was the owner of Bavarian Coach Werks which built the insane Banana Slugger and many others.

That yellow reminds me of the Ruf CTR Yellowbird in Assetto Corsa. A great car, but a b**** to drive fast!

I can only speak for myself, but what brought me back to flight sims was the Covid Lockdowns, MS/Asobo got very lucky with the timing there I think.

19 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

I Kinda think those quotes by Thranda are aging off a bit these days.

While it's absolutely true that XP isn't nearly as popular as MSFS, there are plenty of missives from devs and news from Laminar Research indicating that things are indeed going well these days - at least relatively.

Just Flight have decided to re-invigorate their XP aircraft lineup (with Thranda), SimCoders continue to release new REPs for new add-ons, X-Crafts E-jets are soon to be joined by rebuilt ERJs, Flight Factor's 777 is garnering high praise, there's much buzz about the new X-Aviation CJ, and a steady stream of new helos is appearing.

And Thranda themselves just released a rather lovely looking Pilatus PC-12. Judging by their historical work, it's going to be a good add-on that will likely rival the SWS PC-12 in fidelity&quality.

Unlike when P3D was dying as a consumer sim, we're seeing more add-ons release at higher quality for XP 12 these days - the exact opposite of P3D.

And we know Laminar themselves are hiring, having gotten much bigger since MSFS 2020 launched.

Finally, Steam stats are only relevant to Steam players, and those folks are on Steam for gaming more than for flight sim.

 

Eta: Im going to bet that Thrandas woes are at leased partially based on their choice of add-ons to re-create. Many just aren't exciting, and almost all are piston single engines...

To be fair though, that quote from Thranda is only about 2.5 months ago. The date is October 12th, so it's not that long ago.  But why I think Thranda's quote is probably accurate is because the time they cited for their record PC6 sales for XP 11 pretty much lines up with the peak SteamDB numbers for XP 11.

Here is Thranda's quote again, but I am just going to cite the part about the PC6 sales:

Quote

We have published 10 planes, roughly, since then... and not even with 10 more planes on the market, have we seen a month in sales like when we published the PC6 four years ago.  Not even with significant discounts on our products during entire months of sales.

Checking FSElite, it appears the PC6 by Thranda was released for XP11 in June of 2020.  Now the highest user numbers for XP 11 in SteamDB was April of 2020:

https://steamdb.info/app/269950/charts/#max

What Thranda is saying about their PC6 sales lines up pretty well with the data from SteamDB.  Pretty much, it appears the peak numbers for XP 11 was around the spring and early summer of 2020, before MSFS 2020 came out. And you can see in the SteamDB charts for XP 11, there is a huge drop off in user numbers in August of 2020, which is when MSFS 2020 came out.  The numbers recovered a little and XP 11 holds onto its user numbers for 2021 and early 2022, but then the numbers drop again in from April of 2022.  April to May of 2022 is when the first batch of study level airliners appeared in MSFS 2020 (Just Flight BAe 146, Leonardo Maddog, PMDG 737, and Fenix A320).  So the changes in the SteamDB chart for XP 11 is pretty consistent with the changes in the flight sim market.

Let me be clear in that I don't think the SteamDB numbers are representative of the entire XP 11 and XP 12 player base, as I think some people purchase XP off the LR website and not Steam.  Similarly, I don't think the SteamDB numbers are representative of the MSFS player base as many people on PC are buying MSFS from the Microsoft store, and on XBox they buy it from the XBox store.  However, I think the charts for SteamDB do give us and indication of the rough timing of the peak and troughs, and the changing market conditions. 

So when I take Thranda's quote, and I put it together with the SteamDB chart, what Thranda is saying makes a lot of sense - Thranda's quote of their PC6 selling record numbers is in pretty close to the peak XP 11 numbers according to the SteamDB chart.

BTW, using the SteamDB charts for MSFS 2020 and MSFS 2024, it shows that MSFS 2020 has the higher user base than MSFS 2024  for the last two weeks.  I think the majority of the MSFS player base for PC are still using MSFS 2020 as we head into Christmas of 2024.

Edited December 24, 20241 yr by abrams_tank