On 1/21/2025 at 12:49 PM, BillW said:

Don't take ------------ if you are allergic to said drug.

That is akin to the warning label on *some* chainsaws:

WARNING: do not hold the chainsaw between your legs when starting the chainsaw!

2 hours ago, n4gix said:

WARNING: do not hold the chainsaw between your legs when starting the chainsaw!

I wonder how many incidents occurred that they felt the need to include this warning?

6 hours ago, n4gix said:

WARNING: do not hold the chainsaw between your legs when starting the chainsaw!

Wouldn’t not holding a chainsaw between your legs when starting a chainsaw fall under “We hold these truths to be self-evident”?

13 hours ago, LHookins said:

I just had a thought.

Some time ago they'd add quinine to medicines to make them taste as bad as possible, so people wouldn't take them unless they really had to and to prevent taking too much of them.

Are the horrible side effects of advertised medicines in part to keep people from taking them if they can get them from other sources than their doctor? 

Hook

No, the listed side effects are a legal thing to warn users, but the drug manufacturers still get sued when someone suffers one of the more severe side effects.

10 hours ago, n4gix said:

That is akin to the warning label on *some* chainsaws:

WARNING: do not hold the chainsaw between your legs when starting the chainsaw!

A self-limiting problem, actually.  Also a generation limiting problem, though some might consider it just a part of the gene pool filter. 🤣

16 hours ago, LHookins said:

Not in this case, Dave. I'm talking about taking a large dose of aspirin at the first signs of a heart attack. This was documented in the quotes I posted.

And, again, I'm not talking about taking a lot *at one time*.  I'm talking about using it as a painkiller and taking 325mg or more several times a day over several days like you can do with Tylenol.

The daily dose for blood thinning is probably small enough that it doesn't damage the stomach.

Look, if you want to take it for pain that's your choice - it certainly has been proven effective for that.  However, I think the dangers of Tylenol have been a bit exaggerated.  I've taken 1000mg for headaches and pain, at most twice a day, for many years and never had any negative side effects, but I never do this for more than a few days at a time.

Too much for too long of any medicine is not good IMO.

Dave

I grow my own pain-killing medication in my green house. All natural and no "big pharma" involved.

Caution: Not recommended before flight or whilst using chainsaws 😉

 

15 hours ago, Mike A said:

I wonder how many incidents occurred that they felt the need to include this warning?

That's a good question! One might call such an action a "self-neutering operation..."🤣

On 1/23/2025 at 12:45 PM, n4gix said:

One might call such an action a "self-neutering operation..."🤣

"Take two Tylenol and call me in the morning."

Hook

 

On 1/23/2025 at 6:35 PM, TrafficPilot said:

I grow my own pain-killing medication in my green house. All natural and no "big pharma" involved.

Caution: Not recommended before flight or whilst using chainsaws 😉

 

dont tell Kier, he will tax you on it 

5 hours ago, fluffyflops said:

dont tell Kier, he will tax you on it 

Here's hoping!😁

Just in case anyone is curious: acetaminophen is metabolized in the liver to other chemicals, which are then also further metabolized, and eventually the end products come out in the urine.

One of the metabolites (called N-acetyl-p-benzoquinone imine, or simply NAPQI) is toxic, but rendered harmless by an antioxidant made in the liver called glutathione. When glutathione bonds to NAPQI, the NAQPI passes out of the body without causing any trouble.

This process is not limited to acetaminophen; the liver "deactivates" all kinds of other toxic stuff in this same way. That's one of the liver's main jobs.

With normal doses of acetaminophen, there's more than enough glutathione to take care of all the NAPQI, and this is why acetaminophen is so safe. (Millions of people take acetaminophen every year without any side effects or problems.) 

But in high doses, there's not enough glutathione to bind to all the NAPQI, and that's when the bad stuff happens. With high levels of acetaminophen, liver injury is unavoidable and can be fatal. Fortunately there's an antidote (N-acetylcysteine), which basically restores ample glutathione in the liver, thus neutralizing the NAPQI. But you have to give the antidote soon, like within a few hours, before the NAPQI has a chance to damage liver cells.

You see acetaminophen poisoning happen in a couple of ways.

1. Intentional overdose. People use acetaminophen for suicide because it's widely available and very fatal at high doses. I feel sorry for those poor souls, because death by acetaminophen poisoning isn't like "going to sleep and never waking up," instead it's three or so days days of intense wakeful suffering ending in a slow and painful death. And the antidote is useless if you don't get help until the pain starts the next day. It's pretty horrible.

2. Accidental overdose. Either taking too much, or taking repeated doses too quickly, or combining multiple compounds that have acetaminophen as an ingredient (e.g. Tylenol tablets plus NyQuil cough syrup); or kids getting into the medicine cabinet and playing around. Many thousands of people poison themselves accidentally this way every year.

3. Pre-existing liver disease. If your liver function has been substantially degraded by some other illness, then normal doses of acetaminophen can be toxic.

In sum: acetaminophen is safe at recommended doses if your liver is healthy. It can be fatal if you take too much or if your liver can't handle it.

 

 

Thank you for the detailed information.

This was not part of the discussion so far, but I thought I should mention for those suffering of arthritis or chronical inflammation a long term cure that I experienced first hand. When I consulted my rheumatologist, the first recommendation was NSAID, with the consequences you all know when they are taken for a long period of time.

On WebMD (which by the way I recommend to anyone curious about alternative treatments) I discovered S Adenosyl methionine (SAMe) with no side-effects and gave up on the NSAID without medical clearance. This supplement (SAMe) is natural and used by Mount Sinai Hospital and Mayo Clinic in the States, but also in some countries in Europe like Italy, Spain and Germany.

Upon my next semestral arthritis check, my inflammation (and pain) - as shown by blood tests - had gone away, totally, so the rheumatologists thought their treatment was working, when I broke the news to them, their first reaction was: "It is not scientifically accepted". My question to them: "Is SAMe dangerous?", and their answer was "Not that we are aware of". Separately, my generalist approved and I am now totally discharged from the arthritis department... No pain, no chemical, no inflammation, no side-effects after two years (and regular blood controls).

Edited January 26, 20251 yr by Bernard Ducret

9 minutes ago, Bernard Ducret said:

I discovered S Adenosyl methionine (SAMe) with no side-effects and gave up on the NSAID without medical clearance. This supplement (SAMe) is natural and used by Mount Sinai Hospital and Mayo Clinic in the States, but also in some countries in Europe like Italy, Spain and Germany.

Thanks a lot for this information.  I didn't know about SAMe for inflammation.  It is also used for depression I discovered.  Another natural remedy for inflammation is Curcumin, but it does take a long time to have an effect.

It's pretty clear that most Western doctors, especially American doctors, are trained(and financially incentivized) to simply prescribe Big Pharma stuff like NSAIDs for inflammation, as well as the standard commercial medicines for depression, and statins to lower cholesterol, for example.  They rarely consider alternative treatments or medicines.

In Italy, our doctor would tell us to try dietary changes, exercise, and physical therapy for some ailments before resorting to Big Pharma solutions.  Most doctors here don't do that.

Dave