and with these words back to xplane 12

6 hours ago, Franz007 said:

We were debating the „serious“ side. And the result is still that XP offers it.

I was not. I specifically addressed the disconnect between FM fidelity and FAA certification another poster thought were in correlation.

I am not sure how much more clearer I could be. I even wrote this is not my opinion - it's an excerpt from the requirement list - yet you are bickering about something entirely different,  which I have little interest in participating in.

Try barking at someone else with your 'seriousness'

23 minutes ago, SAS443 said:

I was not. I specifically addressed the disconnect between FM fidelity and FAA certification another poster thought were in correlation.

I am not sure how much more clearer I could be. I even wrote this is not my opinion - it's an excerpt from the requirement list - yet you are bickering about something entirely different,  which I have little interest in participating in.

Try barking at someone else with your 'seriousness'

And what did I answer you when talking about that requirement for BATD? You ignored it. And again, the core of the discussion was the „serious“ side of XP mentionned by Goran. I went back to that and you are trying once again to make diversion. That was not the point.

Whoever thinks that X-Plane is a serious simulator better not read any of the in-game signs and advertisements... 😜

1 hour ago, Franz007 said:

And again, the core of the discussion was the „serious“ side of XP mentionned by Goran

I did never engage in that specific discussion.

Even Goran understood that. You apparently did not.

Bye.

 

9 hours ago, Litjan said:

That is why I said "major difference".

I apologise. I thought you said:

Litjan said: "the "professional" version of X-Plane is identical (except for some licensing stuff)"

Edited March 20, 20251 yr by turbomax

6 hours ago, Litjan said:

I have to side with @efis007 here.

I cringe every time that my fellow X-Plane fans field the "FAA approved" argument as a means to achieve domination in the "sim vs sim" debate.

Ultimately, the "professional" version of X-Plane allows to use X-Plane in a commercial way - to make money with it. Much like the infamous "licensed by Airbus/Boeing" badges that third-party airplane devs like to slap on their models, this says next to nothing about the fidelity or accuracy of the model, it simply states that those companies allow their name to be used to "make money" with it.

I am explicitly not going to touch on the subject of which flightmodel is more accurate or which sim is better here.

To my knowledge, historically X-Plane was used to drive training devices that were "FAA approved" to log hours towards flight training - but in a very limited way, basically only to practice IFR procedures like VOR or NDB navigation - not to learn how to operate an aircraft´s systems or even how to "fly".
As far as I know, this was done using X-Plane 9 or earlier versions, and probably X-Plane 9 was used because it offers an easier way to couple custom hardware than the contemporary other flight simulators.

But I am convinced that most of the other simulators currently out there could easily be used to make a training device that is FAA approved, as well. All you need is a way to hook it up to realistic enough hardware.

tl;dr: Don´t use the "FAA approved" argument anymore when trying to achieve my-sim-is-better-than-your-sim dominance - it can be dispelled easily and carries little weight.

Jan,

I usually agree with a lot of your statements. However I think you must have had a bad day. Perhaps you were forced to go for a walk with your wife? 😉

First, that FAA certification does not directly prove the quality of X-Plane's flight dynamics or overall simulation accuracy. However, certification signifies that X-Plane meets certain standards required for professional training, which still sets it apart from simulators purely focused on entertainment.

While it’s true that earlier versions like X-Plane 9 were used for specific training scenarios such as IFR procedures, newer versions have significantly advanced in their simulation capabilities. The modern X-Plane, while still requiring the appropriate hardware integration, offers even greater potential for professional applications due to improvements in realism.

Even if certification itself isn't about flight models, X-Plane's focus on accurate flight dynamics and its suitability for professional use contribute to its reputation as a "serious" simulator (that word of course will make some defending other sims go absolutely mad - we already had a foretaste in the previous pages). But dismissing FAA certification entirely downplays its role in validating X-Plane as a tool for structured learning and training.

While others simulators (GTA V too? 🙂) with the right hardware could theoretically achieve FAA approval, X-Plane is often chosen because of its extensive customization options and ease of integration. This makes it a practical choice for developing approved training devices, regardless of the certification argument.

Discarding the "FAA approved" argument outright, it might be more constructive to educate your fellow flightsimers about the fact that while certification isn't a direct endorsement of flight dynamics, it still reflects the simulator's capability to function in professional environments.

The certification alone doesn’t crown X-Plane as superior to others, but combined with its focus on realism and flexibility, it solidifies its status as a professional-grade tool.

I think this was the core of the discussion launched by Goran‘s remark about selling his extremely acurate addon for a professional customers, showing one of XP‘s capabilities in that area. And the fact that other sims could achieve the same doesn‘t impact that, exactly like you are not less of a certified Boeing-pilot just because your wife‘s-friend‘s could theoreticalöy achieve the same if she wanted. But she didn‘t. Or did she? 😉

34 minutes ago, SAS443 said:

I did never engage in that specific discussion.

Even Goran understood that. You apparently did not.

Bye.

 

Doesn‘t change the fact that I engaged on your point and even agreed with what you said, you ignored it, had a chance to look at it again and failed once again by sticking to adhominem attacks. So giving your good-bye is probably the best decision you can make.

2 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

adhominem attacks.

Such as?:

"Those comments are usuall being made by (what a surprise) MS-admirers. Bingo" 

Is that the ad hominem attack you speak of? Because by definition that's the biggest ad hominem we have in this thread, and it came unprovoked just because you did not like an opinion.

It's funny you try to accuse me, but your own actions are not really playing in your favor.

But sure. Have whatever moral victory you wishes, buddy. I will stop.

 

25 minutes ago, SAS443 said:

Such as?:

"Those comments are usuall being made by (what a surprise) MS-admirers. Bingo"

It looks like you felt targeted and reacted as predicted.

25 minutes ago, SAS443 said:

I will stop.

Didn’t you announce us that previously already?

Edited March 19, 20251 yr by Franz007

49 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

It looks like you felt targeted and reacted as predicted.

It looks like you are the one dishing out ad hominems. And you did not even try to hide it or even feel remorseful

Want to explain why you resort to those toxic techniques? 

3 hours ago, Franz007 said:

However, certification signifies that X-Plane meets certain standards required for professional training, which still sets it apart from simulators purely focused on entertainment.

E.g., I guess FAA approved sims must be able to set precise visibility and runway visual range for training scenarios... (hint, hint).

Anyway, this discussion is hopeless. Even after I tried to explain it, participants are still totally failing to understand the rationale of @GoranM reference to FAA approval in response to someone else (i.e. not an "XP fan") using the word "serious".

Hopefully 12.2 public beta will be out soon so we can discuss other things. 🙂

so many hot heads, this forum so much fun,,,, not...

This is the magical forum thread. The more we post here the faster 12.2 beta arrives. 

5 hours ago, blingthinger said:

The more we post here the faster 12.2 beta arrives.

so busy arguing well be on 12.7rc100 before they realize it