1 hour ago, SAS443 said:

Little dramatic perhaps.

But I will actually give you this win.

Some years ago we had a 35+ pages thread where plenty of prolific posters in this subforum who - for some unexplainable reason, I mean just look at the before/after image - failed to acknowledge it and went full frontal assault on those who wanted it corrected. Even a few real airline pilots chimed in and were met with the same defensive manners.

So savour the win, but do not rub it in.
 

 

It’s not that we didn’t agree with it. It’s that we were sick and tired of reading the same whiney complaint, over and over and over again, in every single update thread. 

Edited March 15, 20251 yr by GoranM

Very few denied that it wasn´t perfect - but many believed that it was not a showstopper as in the "I can´t see my panel" complaints of some. 

If you overdramatize a problem in an attempt to put more weight on it´s severity and get your point across, you always run the risk of someone saying "oh, but I CAN see the panel in your screenshot!" "Yeah, but it is very very dark!" "That may be true, but you said you can´t see it, which is obviously not true, so ergo your whole point is founded on a lie 😉. It´s like when your wife says "you NEVER buy me flowers" and you go "now wait a minute dear, remember back in 83...".

And then there were some users (like me), who were actually fine with the way it was (but I will still upgrade to 12.1.4 because there are many more things nicely improved with it). I use a right-mouseclick-hold-swivel technique ALL the time when flying, so for me it was second nature to pan the view down when I wanted to see the panel and up when I wanted to look outside and the brightness adjusted automatically accordingly.

1 hour ago, Litjan said:

"Yeah, but it is very very dark!" "That may be true, but you said you can´t see it,

they were complaining xplane simulated getting blinded by the sun.

xp12.2 "fixes" that.

So you cant get blinded by the sun.

Edited March 15, 20251 yr by mSparks

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

they were complaining xplane simulated getting blinded by the sun.

xp12.2 "fixes" that.

So you cant get blinded by the sun.

Just a minor correction, you will still be able to blinded by the sun. Like I said above the goal of exposure fusion is not to implement some cheap HDR effect, but to simulate the local brightness response of eyes, with the term "local" meaning different regions of our vision are "exposed" independently, rather than a camera which would expose the whole scene with a single exposure value. So 12.2 is not intentionally making things less accurate to make things look nicer, it's making things more accurate by processing the rendered scene not like a camera but like an eye / brain. Exposure fusion also does not alter anything if the scene can be exposed well with a single exposure value.

See the A321 screenshot in sent by @efis007 in page 2 of this thread - I'm pretty sure that's my screenshot, and I had intentionally taken that to demonstrate how the dark cockpits issue was not related to the sun blinding the eyes. The sun is way up in that screenshot, so there is no direct sunlight coming to your eyes whatsoever (which indeed would have been blinding), yet the cockpit is unrealistic to what I see IRL looking from an A320 jumpseat.

When there is sun in the view, it will still dominate everything. Though as a fun fact the sun's blinding effect have never been properly simulated in X-Plane 12 to begin with, as we can't fit the sun in its full brightness to the HDR scene buffer (16-bit buffer, maxes out at 65536 nits), when the sun is 1.9 billion nits. However like I said 12.2 does not cripple the sun even further.

In fact ironically the cockpits looked darker with the sun was facing up / behind the cockpit than facing the cockpit & camera in 12.1 and before. This would not have been the case if dark cockpits issue was caused by the sun blinding the eyes.

With that being said, it's planned to make exposure fusion user toggleable, so if one prefers seeing the scene like how a camera would see like in 12.1 and before, that will still be an option.

Edited March 15, 20251 yr by Maya2

57 minutes ago, Maya2 said:

Like I said above the goal of exposure fusion is not to implement some cheap HDR effect, but to simulate the local brightness response of eyes, with the term "local" meaning different regions of our vision are "exposed" independently, rather than a camera which would expose the whole scene with a single exposure value. So 12.2 is not intentionally making things less accurate to make things look nicer, it's making things more accurate by processing the rendered scene not like a camera but like an eye / brain.

Exactly that! I find the new lighting in 12.2 a lot more realistic in how I perceive things in real life, since eyes+brain work very differently from cameras.

Maybe in the future you could also introduce actual sun blinding when facing directly the sun, whereas all contrast is lost in pretty much the whole field of vision. There was a combat sim doing an excellent job of simulating it (don't remember if it was some past version of DCS or IL-2). It would be great to have it in X-Plane, also considering that X-Plane already features sunscreens/sunglasses, and adding the sun blinding effect would actually make them useful.

2 minutes ago, Murmur said:

Exactly that! I find the new lighting in 12.2 a lot more realistic in how I perceive things in real life, since eyes+brain work very differently from cameras.

Maybe in the future you could also introduce actual sun blinding when facing directly the sun, whereas all contrast is lost in pretty much the whole field of vision. There was a combat sim doing an excellent job of simulating it (don't remember if it was some past version of DCS or IL-2). It would be great to have it in X-Plane, also considering that X-Plane already features sunscreens/sunglasses, and adding the sun blinding effect would actually make them useful.

IL2 surely does it !

13 hours ago, GoranM said:

The fact you would even consider he was a troll, is out of line.

I don't think he was calling him a troll. I believe that he sarcastically made fun of those who denied that lighting was an issue and would have considered both him and biology trolls for stating that there was an issue. That thread was 32+ pages because some users kept insisting it wasn't a problem.

Biology also mentioned this in the lighting thread as well.

On 3/9/2023 at 1:55 PM, Biology said:

I won't be surprised at all if someone calls me a troll just for stating facts about the cockpit lighting issue.

 

 

1 hour ago, Maya2 said:

you will still be able to blinded by the sun.

That is not what I see here

On 3/14/2025 at 2:42 PM, Matchstick said:

LR have published their first screenshot showing the Cockpit Lighting Improvements in 12.2

what I see there is staring straight into the sun, cockpit clear as if the sun was behind you.

But thats fine for people who prefer it that way, I just expect to be turning off that "fix" for the most part, and wished that that effort had gone in to speeding up fixes to things that really need fixing like openXR, animation meshes, next gen scenery and the networking.

Edited March 15, 20251 yr by mSparks

31 minutes ago, brinx said:

some users kept insisting it wasn't a problem.

And this is still true for around half of people. For example for me. Never has been a problem. But if it is an issue for the other half of people, it’s of course nice that they fix it.

1 hour ago, brinx said:

I don't think he was calling him a troll. I believe that he sarcastically made fun of those who denied that lighting was an issue and would have considered both him and biology trolls for stating that there was an issue. That thread was 32+ pages because some users kept insisting it wasn't a problem.

IMO it's not only (or not necessarily) the arguments brought that make someone a troll, but also (or mostly) the attitude and tones used.

Biology and efis might even have brought the same exact arguments to the dark cockpit issue, but from Biology I haven't never seen the kind of toxic and provocative attitude and tones that are typical of many posts from efis.

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

That is not what I see here

what I see there is staring straight into the sun, cockpit clear as if the sun was behind you.

But thats fine for people who prefer it that way, I just expect to be turning off that "fix" for the most part, and wished that that effort had gone in to speeding up fixes to things that really need fixing like openXR, animation meshes, next gen scenery and the networking.

The sun is not in the frame in that screenshot, I assume you confused the overexposed area of the sky (the glow is due to Mie scattering) with the sun? Like I've said in 12.1 and before the cockpits still look dark regardless of whether the sun is in front of the cockpit or not, in fact darker when the sun is behind. Either case I understand, different people have different preferences so it makes sense to make it toggleable.

Lastly, other developers are working on the things you mentioned so the work on exposure fusion did not take away any development time from them.

Edited March 15, 20251 yr by Maya2

1 hour ago, Murmur said:

Exactly that! I find the new lighting in 12.2 a lot more realistic in how I perceive things in real life, since eyes+brain work very differently from cameras.

Maybe in the future you could also introduce actual sun blinding when facing directly the sun, whereas all contrast is lost in pretty much the whole field of vision. There was a combat sim doing an excellent job of simulating it (don't remember if it was some past version of DCS or IL-2). It would be great to have it in X-Plane, also considering that X-Plane already features sunscreens/sunglasses, and adding the sun blinding effect would actually make them useful.

Yes, in a perfect world an extra simulation of sun blinding the eyes wouldn't have been needed as it would've been taken care of automatically by the autoexposure, but the 65k nits limit is causing a lot of issues in that regard, as the autoexposure system doesn't even "see" the sun. As a quick experiment, one can set the sky 90 degree up in the sky and slightly move the camera to get the sun in and out of the frame, you will see that the metered EV100 changes very little.

Edited March 15, 20251 yr by Maya2

nvm

Edited March 15, 20251 yr by mSparks

7 hours ago, GoranM said:

It’s not that we didn’t agree with it. It’s that we were sick and tired of reading the same whiney complaint, over and over and over again, in every single update thread. 

As the saying goes, the squeaky wheel gets the oil! Keep bitching, that's the only way certain items get corrected! How can you blame the customers when Laminar made numerous statements that things are going to get fixed only to still be broke years later!!!

You know the complainers, just bypass out posts until Laminar gets off their bottom and gets these items fixed.  Here's an idea, fix things that are broken before adding new stuff that's broke as well.

Edited March 15, 20251 yr by Mike_CFII_MEL

44 minutes ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

Here's an idea, fix things that are broken before adding new stuff that's broke as well.

Well than youd be fighting all the people who keep demsnding new things, some things cant be fixed untill other things are fixed, sometimes that evfn means aftera ew feature is added. Thars why i honestly dont understand why anyone would want to ve a developer. You cant win. No matter what you do people from one side or the other will complain.

Fix this

Add that,

We want

We must have