22 minutes ago, efis007 said:

 

Because Xplane pretends to be a flight simulator.
And the top priority of a SERIOUS flight simulator is the visibility of the instruments and the operational ergonomics.

 

X-Plane is FAA approved. Can’t get more serious than that. 

2 hours ago, efis007 said:

Because Xplane pretends to be a flight simulator.
And the top priority of a SERIOUS flight simulator is the visibility of the instruments and the operational ergonomics.

I have no issue with reading the instruments. It was only a problem during the early beta at the start of XP12 that got fixed pretty quickly.

2 hours ago, efis007 said:

Unrealistic glare, unrealistic black shadows, boats in the sea, transparent water with little fish, and now even the "crazy shaky cameras" that transform the maneuverability of the mouse into a shooting gallery at an amusement park, it becomes almost impossible to control the avionics.
At this point in v12.3 let's also add the "sneeze simulation effect" or the "eye tearing" effect".
How real!

What this has to do with the simulation of a flight is a mystery to me…

56 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

I have no issue with reading the instruments. It was only a problem during the early beta at the start of XP12 that got fixed pretty quickly.

What this has to do with the simulation of a flight is a mystery to me…

Some people just want to find (make up) things to complain about... 🤷‍♀️

Reading instruments in XP is easier when the instruments can be popped out.

In MSFS popout instruments are a true mess for me, totally unusable 😕 but in Xp12 they're my preferred way of interacting with it. Problem is when the cockpis do not provide poppable instruments ...

I have views defined to zoom over those I need to scan.

4 hours ago, efis007 said:

Because Xplane pretends to be a flight simulator.
And the top priority of a SERIOUS flight simulator is the visibility of the instruments and the operational ergonomics.
Instead, for 7 years the Laminars seem to have completely lost their compass, focusing only on "Hollywood effects".
Unrealistic glare, unrealistic black shadows, boats in the sea, transparent water with little fish, and now even the "crazy shaky cameras" that transform the maneuverability of the mouse into a shooting gallery at an amusement park, it becomes almost impossible to control the avionics.
At this point in v12.3 let's also add the "sneeze simulation effect" or the "eye tearing" effect".
How real!
All video game nonsense that has nothing to do with the conduct of the plane. 🤦‍♂️

You can turn most of that stuff off quite easily if it bothers you that much. Better than having a heart attack because you're angry about a dataref being switched on which seems to be the path you're on right now...

4 hours ago, efis007 said:

Because Xplane pretends to be a flight simulator.
And the top priority of a SERIOUS flight simulator is the visibility of the instruments and the operational ergonomics.
Instead, for 7 years the Laminars seem to have completely lost their compass, focusing only on "Hollywood effects".
Unrealistic glare, unrealistic black shadows, boats in the sea, transparent water with little fish, and now even the "crazy shaky cameras" that transform the maneuverability of the mouse into a shooting gallery at an amusement park, it becomes almost impossible to control the avionics.
At this point in v12.3 let's also add the "sneeze simulation effect" or the "eye tearing" effect".
How real!
All video game nonsense that has nothing to do with the conduct of the plane. 🤦‍♂️

Hi,

I'm no F/B of any flightsim base platform, I call them out where I see they have been lacking, but to call XP12 pretending to be a flight sim I would strongly disagree with in that regard. As far as the Hollywood effects statement, I couldn't agree more with the fish, birds, leaves swaying in the breeze!!! Fix what is broken (for YEARS) before you start adding into the mix.

There are people who are so dissatisfied with themselves that they cannot be satisfied with anything.

5 hours ago, efis007 said:

Because Xplane pretends to be a flight simulator.
And the top priority of a SERIOUS flight simulator is the visibility of the instruments and the operational ergonomics.
Instead, for 7 years the Laminars seem to have completely lost their compass, focusing only on "Hollywood effects".
Unrealistic glare, unrealistic black shadows, boats in the sea, transparent water with little fish, and now even the "crazy shaky cameras" that transform the maneuverability of the mouse into a shooting gallery at an amusement park, it becomes almost impossible to control the avionics.
At this point in v12.3 let's also add the "sneeze simulation effect" or the "eye tearing" effect".
How real!
All video game nonsense that has nothing to do with the conduct of the plane. 🤦‍♂️

You might be surprised to learn that most people, myself included, want the simulator to look good and are willing to invest in achieving that. Visual effects enhance realism and enjoyment, even if they are purely aesthetic. If a simulator doesn’t look good, people won’t buy it, developers won’t create add-ons, and ultimately, there wouldn’t be a simulator at all. LR are addressing issues such as the dark cockpit, so what is the issue here?

By your logic, you might as well stick to an older simulator with a 2D popup cockpit, such as FS9 or FlightGear, since those would align perfectly with your expectations.

 

I see @efis007 point, and somehow agree with him regarding the features a realistic training platform should offer, or wasn't I someone who used & abused Aerowinx PS1 and PSX and just gave up on PSX because it is too complex for me these days, and, honestly, my brain needs what @tonywob also refers too in his reply above - some sugar!

Sugar is poison I know, but just a bit, well structured, like in a good 85+% cocoa tablet, is good to the arteries 🙂 and to the "good mood" too ...

I also used ELITE, up to version 9 which was recently discontinued 😞 and that sim while offereing some scenery sugar ( rather basic ) had excellent 2d instrument panels. TBH I would always prefer to have, just as with FSLabs Airbus fleet for FSX and P3D, an option to use 2d panels, preferably poppable, instead of 3d only.

But, just as Tony puts it, it wouldn't sell, and unfortunately these days users put so much focus on all of what to me is superfluous that I have to bare with LR and ASOBO and others ...

Then, with some excellent addons, like the Toliss Airbuses, now the Torquesim Citation 525, etc..., I can have excellent popup instruments. Unfortunately in X-Plane 12 dragging these to another window will be heavy on performance, but I can still use one or two in my main Xp12 screen and have a bit of a 2d instrument panel 🙂

Edited March 12, 20251 yr by jcomm

On 3/10/2025 at 11:12 AM, jcomm said:

Lately I had been using Xp12 with xEnviro and at times ASXP12, but a few days ago I reverted to default weather and even dropped SimHeaven because with Lossless I can now maximize scenery detail, and together with also the default ATC, it has become the simulator that behaves more satisactorily for me only using it's default features.

I've found this as well. Dropped Simheaven and ORBX and AS. Sim performs beautifully.

On 3/11/2025 at 8:49 PM, tonywob said:

You might be surprised to learn that most people, myself included, want the simulator to look good and are willing to invest in achieving that.

Just like you, I want it to look good. 👍
But the real question you need to ask yourself is: what does "good looking" mean?

On 3/11/2025 at 8:49 PM, tonywob said:

Visual effects enhance realism and enjoyment, even if they are purely aesthetic.

And it is precisely on these words that our opinions of thought are divided.
This (for me) is not realism ! 🤢 

The "special effects" that generated that dark representation are not contributing to making the simulator more "beautiful" as you previously stated.
I do not see anything "beautiful" in that representation.
I see an ugly and totally unrealistic representation.
I see an invasive special effect that has ruined a beautiful aircraft modeled and textured with care, which, due to the XP12 bug, appears to the player as if it were carbon paper.
And this thing, even if there is someone who denies it, nobody likes it !
Even less so by aircraft developers who for 7 years have seen their products ruined by that unrealistic "special effect" introduced by XP11-12. 😒

On 3/11/2025 at 8:49 PM, tonywob said:

LR are addressing issues such as the dark cockpit, so what is the issue here?

Problem?
No problem Sir.
I simply showed what is the priority bug that I expect to see fixed in 12.2 after 7 years of holy waiting.

On 3/11/2025 at 8:49 PM, tonywob said:

By your logic, you might as well stick to an older simulator with a 2D popup cockpit, such as FS9

And what makes you think I'm not already doing it? 🧐
Did you know that I've been happily flying FS9 since 2014?
The mere fact that among all the Xplane users I'm probably the only one who still flies FS9 is a clear indication that I'm not part of that group of users defined as "spoiled".
Spoiled not in a derogatory sense, but spoiled in the sense of expectations.
Xp12 pilots are very different from FS9 pilots.
Xp12 pilots want volumetric clouds, they want reflections on the bodywork, they want photometric light, and a thousand other graphic accessories impossible on FS9, and they are not even remotely willing to give up those effects.
Those who fly FS9, on the other hand, like me, are satisfied with little, the important thing is to be able to see the instruments well!
It is an essential condition, an absolute priority of every flight simulator, and it is the only condition that really allows me to fly the airplane.
Everything else takes a back seat.
This is why it is very important to eliminate that bug from Xplane.
I do not fly the airplane thanks to the "special effects".
I do not know what to do with the "special effects" if then these "special effects" perform an unrealistic disturbance function (as happens with XP) that prevents me from flying the airplane well.

On 3/11/2025 at 4:03 PM, GoranM said:

X-Plane is FAA approved. Can’t get more serious than that. 

In fact, it is known that in FAA-approved simulators they train pilots to fly unrealistically dark and poorly visible panels. 😁

20 minutes ago, efis007 said:

In fact, it is known that in FAA-approved simulators they train pilots to fly unrealistically dark and poorly visible panels. 😁

Then I guess your remark about X-Plane "pretending" to be a flight simulator is moot. 

On 3/11/2025 at 8:41 PM, odi11 said:

There are people who are so dissatisfied with themselves that they cannot be satisfied with anything.

If the criticism was directed at me, I'll tell you the same thing I've said to others.
Did you know that, in addition to Xplane, I still fly FS9 with great satisfaction? 😃
If there's one person who is satisfied with little... really little... that person is me.

You instead... tell me... why don't you fly FS9 anymore?
Maybe because you consider its graphics, its 2D panels, its flight dynamics ugly?
If the answer is "YES", then which of us is the one who is not satisfied with anything? 
Think about it. 😉

Anyway.. I'm not asking for unrealizable miracles.
I'm not asking for Hollywood inside XP12.
I just want a bug that has been going on for 7 years to disappear permanently.
What do you say? After 7 years of waiting, is it right to desire it?
Please, stop saying "there are people who are no longer satisfied".
We've been content to fly with disgusting, dark panels for 7 years!
7 years
Enough now, we're tired, we've waited too long.
Thank God, a user who used to hang around this forum (and who was considered a Troll (because he supported the same reasons I support!) now works for Laminar and most likely he will be the one to solve this problem. 👏
But when I think about past episodes and discussions, I seriously ask myself: "but if we Trolls weren't there to raise the issue of buggy lighting and dark panels, how could XP12 have improved??????"  😳
All the other "fans" seemed to have blindfolds on, no one noticed anything and even denied the existence of the problem. 🤦‍♂️
Something never seen in any other simulator.

TMFT..