19 minutes ago, St Mawgan said:

Yes, a licence to use it. 

Not sure you understand perpetual licensing.  IE the right to use as long as you own with indefinite unrestricted use... 

Ergo, can't be revoked.  Not a subscription license

Edited April 11, 20251 yr by psolk

9 minutes ago, psolk said:

Not sure you understand perpetual licensing.  IE the right to use as long as you own with indefinite unrestricted use... 

Ergo, can't be revoked.  Not a subscription license

I can sell you a perpetual licence to use my lawn mower. It will still be my lawn mower. You can sell the licence to use it to someone else, you cannot sell, modify or reverse engineer my lawn mower.  

13 minutes ago, St Mawgan said:

I can sell you a perpetual licence to use my lawn mower. It will still be my lawn mower. You can sell the licence to use it to someone else, you cannot sell, modify or reverse engineer my lawn mower.  

you are completely conflating topics.  Perpetual vs subscription has nothing to do with modification or reverse engineering. Those are terms and restrictions of the license.  It is usually for the SW or SW specifically tied to HW.   It is a one time license fee for "forever" use rights as long as you possess the HW or SW in question.  Not sure how a lawn mower is even a relevant analogy.  But to your point if you sell me a perpetual license for your lawnmower I get to use it unrestricted for life... Anytime, anywhere, you get no say.

MSFS and The Crew in the original article are a subscription license.  COMPLETELY different.

Edited April 11, 20251 yr by psolk

1 hour ago, Farlis said:

No one ever owned a PC Game.

My flight simulator 2000 DVD disagrees.
If I like, I can Install it and play it. If MS remove MSFS24 tomorrow, that’s it. 

I do tend to pay attention to the EULAs and I can comfortably say In 40 years of buying and using software I cannot recall a single one that I owned, certainly nothing from Microsoft. Every single purchase is for a license to use it at the sole discretion of the company that sold it to me. At any time they could have written to me and demanded I stop using the software and, in the old days, demanded I return the physical media. It really cannot be any other way. If they sold you code with full rights then you would own the code, you could modify it and sell it yourself.

 

28 minutes ago, kerosene31 said:

I've tried and honestly never gotten to the end of one.  They are so awfully written.  

I read one "herein" or "hencefoth" and I'm running for the hills.

There written that way for a reason!🤣 You think that's bad what till you find out that you own nothing and are in fact a slave.

 

BTW the EULA agreement for my lawn mower is 18 pages long. 

16 minutes ago, Cognita said:

I do tend to pay attention to the EULAs and I can comfortably say In 40 years of buying and using software I cannot recall a single one that I owned, certainly nothing from Microsoft. Every single purchase is for a license to use it at the sole discretion of the company that sold it to me. At any time they could have written to me and demanded I stop using the software and, in the old days, demanded I return the physical media. It really cannot be any other way. If they sold you code with full rights then you would own the code, you could modify it and sell it yourself.

 

Absolutely not if they sold you a perpetual license.  You can not take something perpetual back once it's sold.  You can stop supporting it but you can't stop someone from using it.  It's not about ownership it's about right to use.

I have customers using 20 yr old HW and SW because it came with a perpetual license and it hasn't broken over the years.  We have stopped supporting it years ago, it is end of sale, end of life and end of vulnerability support but we have less than ZERO rights to take it back or force them to stop... I WISH I could force them to change. 

 It's still our SW, they can't reverse engineer it or resell it but we sure as heck can't "take it back" or even force them to stop using it and MS can't show up at my door for my old FS discs...  

Edited April 11, 20251 yr by psolk

38 minutes ago, psolk said:

Absolutely not if they sold you a perpetual license.

My experience is you will not find the term “Perpetual License” used very much if at all on COTS software. 
-B

Edited April 11, 20251 yr by btacon

2 hours ago, psolk said:

I did not say that, the article did...  Please do not misquote and put words in my mouth as a result.  

Relax. I was quoting from the article you included in your OP. That's not putting words in your mouth and I certainly did not misquote as it was a direct copy and paste.

Although "you" was ambiguous and should be replaced by "the user". 

1 hour ago, psolk said:

Absolutely not if they sold you a perpetual license.

I think it gets challenging to make statements that are too general, that is correct. There are perpetual licenses--especially in industries where long-term stability is preferred, including entertainment--but I have never seen a license that does not not still a) restrict the time frame in which there is assurance the software will operate and in which updates and support will be provided and b) provide provisions to terminate the lease, often at the sole discretion of the software provider, but certainly for any material breach of the agreement, for violation of restrictions of the use of the software, and if there is change in control of the providing company -- if the company goes bankrupt or is purchased by another company.

 

2 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

My flight simulator 2000 DVD disagrees.
If I like, I can Install it and play it. If MS remove MSFS24 tomorrow, that’s it. 

You still don't own it. You purchased a license to use it.

Edited April 11, 20251 yr by Farlis

Most people don't know that if they financed their car, you don't own that either. The bank or finance company owns it, and you are renting it from them. 

3 hours ago, psolk said:

What is the point of coming to threads asking people why they post?  If it doesn't interest you then simply walk on by.

I posted it because it's not something we think about all the time but a very real possible ramification of being cloud dependent.

Buying or Renting Software is totally irrelevant to streaming or being cloud dependent.

 

2 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

My flight simulator 2000 DVD disagrees.
If I like, I can Install it and play it. If MS remove MSFS24 tomorrow, that’s it. 

You will have no problems installng and using it, but you'd need to dig through the EULA.  You may not own it.  

Just because there's no method for them to prevent you from doing it doesn't mean that is allowed with the license.

I honestly have no idea how the FS 2000 EULA worked for the record, and not interested in reading it on a Friday afternoon (or anytime lol).