8 hours ago, jfv said:

I've flown the IV now a couple times in both 2020 and 2024,  I think its awesome, while I was flying my Cherokee I always dreamed of upgrading to an Arrow, but I just could never quite justify the added cost. Annuals are always a BIG yearly expense, and add the turbo and retractable in each year and YOW, it's some bucks believe me. Of course simmers aren't usually aware of such issues. 

. 

I almost bought Arrow, but prebuy inspection went wrong. There were a lot of issues, and I decided to back up. I

When I was shopping there were a lot of turbo Arrow on the market. I was wondering why until my mechanic explained all the issue associating with maintenance! In my opinion the only time one can justify owning turbo is hoping over mountains; otherwise,  it's just not worth it. Turbo Arrow won't survive flight school and clubs 

2 hours ago, St Mawgan said:

I'm curious to know which ones you consider to be excellent? 

As previously stated, I regularly fly the Black Square Piston Duke, the Black Square analog Bonanza and, to a lesser extent, the Milviz 310.  I'm also very much looking forward to the new "Professional Series" Bonanza upgrade from Black Square, bringing it up to the Dukes level in terms of features and quality.

 

Scott

3 hours ago, sd_flyer said:

When I was shopping there were a lot of turbo Arrow on the market. I was wondering why until my mechanic explained all the issue associating with maintenance! In my opinion the only time one can justify owning turbo is hoping over mountains; otherwise,  it's just not worth it. Turbo Arrow won't survive flight school and clubs 

Properly managed and flown a good Turbo Arrow is a very fine aircraft and they often do well in school and club situations these days with aftermarket intercoolers, wastegates, improved cowlings, etc.  Upgrades which all but completely mitigate the things that cause maintenance issues when not properly operated.  Of course, ANY turbocharged airplane is going to be higher maintenance than normally aspirated, just as any retract is going to be higher than a similar fixed gear plane.  Complexity means cost.  As for the "worth it" part, that's not only subjective but, as you note, dependent on circumstances.  In my case, my home airport was at 4650' and I could stare down one of the the runways at a 14,000' peak.  It was a good fit for me.

I flew it properly.  I made it beyond TBO.  Good for everybody?  No.  Good for the right pilot and situation, you betcha!

 

Scott

 

Edit: but... we're getting kinda far afield here.  Does anyone else have any suggestions for the issues I'm seeing on the JF T-Arrow?

Edited May 15, 20251 yr by tttocs

1 hour ago, tttocs said:

  I'm also very much looking forward to the new "Professional Series" Bonanza upgrade from Black Square, bringing it up to the Dukes level in terms of features and quality.

These next versions look seriously good.

And even if..., how in the world could anyone skip a Bonanza with a turboprop hanging off the front!!! 

OK folks, I am done. 

I completely uninstalled and re-installed.  I enabled the co-pilot as the EFB manual mentioned something about the balance making a noticeable difference (IRL, not really that noticeable, but...) and I turned off real-world wx leaving clear and calm with standard pressure and no winds.  At those settings I managed to take off and even got it trimmed out for a 97ish knot climb (best rate).  The plane was still bobbing and weaving like I was in hot summer turbulence and mountain wave, but OK I could hand fly. 

After the re-install, the AP problems seemed resolved and I was also able to fly in both heading and nav modes properly so that's good.  So off I went to climb out to 12,000' and do some speed/power tests and... nope.  Made it to about 9,700 before it just pooped out and wouldn't climb any more.  Less than 10,000' and I'm done, still flying at full power and 97 knots indicated.  If I didn't know better, I'd have sworn I had gear and/or flaps still out, but no.  Just to be sure there wasn't some glitch, I cycled the gear and added and removed a notch of flaps.  Still couldn't make 10,000'.

Someone mentioned mods that Rob Young was working on, and I did find a couple of links that indicated he'd recruited some beta testers and was pretty much done testing on the Arrows, but nothing past that.  If anyone has any info on this, I'd love to hear it.  I don't know how my version can be so borked when others (some also with RW Piper time) seem satisfied, but I'm just gonna have to accept it and move on.  Life's too short and all of that.

 

Scott

1 hour ago, tttocs said:

Properly managed and flown a good Turbo Arrow is a very fine aircraft and they often do well in school and club situations these days with aftermarket intercoolers, wastegates, improved cowlings, etc.  Upgrades which all but completely mitigate the things that cause maintenance issues when not properly operated. 

Well there is theory and there is reality. I've been flying over 20 years and have seen a lot abuse of airframes. Even with special check outs and insurance requirement of complex high/performance hours wont save some airframe from merciless beating..  

Just the an irony of live, the Arrow I did my commercial was totaled by gear up landing accident (CFI candidate). And  Seminole that I did my multi commercial add on totaled by collapsed gear upon landing.. Basically none of my commercial training birds survived 😞

16 hours ago, Treetops45 said:

MSFS 2024 Warrior II - Is there some form of AP Altitude Hold?

T45

Update - I was looking for a cockpit solution, but have found that the keyboard 'Ctrl A' works.

 

Yes, I found that you push one of those little white buttons on the AP, I think it was the top one, that it magically leveled off. I got real confused with the Arrow because I thought it would behave the same, but it doesn't.

Sigh, every time I try and do actual loading of a GA aircraft in MSFS it drives me to distraction. The stupid EFB interface for the arrow shows only 3 passenger positions, but guess what, when you try to set either of the two beside the pilot it INSISTS on making both positions the same value... ARRRGGGGHHHH!  I was going to use this with OnAir which likes to really load in the weight, and that did not work out very well...  How hard would it be to add a page to the JF tablet to load this plane properly 😞 

PA-28R Turbo Arrow III/IV

v0.6.2 (Pending)

Added custom fuel and payload menu to EFB/Tablet

Fixed navigation/radio light switch tooltip

Improved overhead dome light artwork

Improved engine fuel flow gauge needle - made longer to better match real aircraft

Improved yoke animation - roll animation is now linear

 

PA-28 Warrior II

v0.4.2 (Pending)

Added custom fuel and payload menu to EFB/Tablet

Fixed navigation/radio light switch tooltip

Fixed primer unlock clickspot

Improved overhead dome light artwork

Improved yoke animation - roll animation is now linear

 

9 hours ago, tttocs said:

OK folks, I am done. 

I completely uninstalled and re-installed.  I enabled the co-pilot as the EFB manual mentioned something about the balance making a noticeable difference (IRL, not really that noticeable, but...) and I turned off real-world wx leaving clear and calm with standard pressure and no winds.  At those settings I managed to take off and even got it trimmed out for a 97ish knot climb (best rate).  The plane was still bobbing and weaving like I was in hot summer turbulence and mountain wave, but OK I could hand fly. 

After the re-install, the AP problems seemed resolved and I was also able to fly in both heading and nav modes properly so that's good.  So off I went to climb out to 12,000' and do some speed/power tests and... nope.  Made it to about 9,700 before it just pooped out and wouldn't climb any more.  Less than 10,000' and I'm done, still flying at full power and 97 knots indicated.  If I didn't know better, I'd have sworn I had gear and/or flaps still out, but no.  Just to be sure there wasn't some glitch, I cycled the gear and added and removed a notch of flaps.  Still couldn't make 10,000'.

Someone mentioned mods that Rob Young was working on, and I did find a couple of links that indicated he'd recruited some beta testers and was pretty much done testing on the Arrows, but nothing past that.  If anyone has any info on this, I'd love to hear it.  I don't know how my version can be so borked when others (some also with RW Piper time) seem satisfied, but I'm just gonna have to accept it and move on.  Life's too short and all of that.

 

Scott

I downloaded the latest update (from like a day ago...?). Flying the III, not the IV.

And of course, SU2 installed.

I had manual weather with just a bit of wind, but standard otherwise. I didn't have the trim problems in either level or climb. I was able to get it close with trim, and then adjust power slightly to keep the speed & alt very steady.

I got it to right about 11,000', and that's where it pooped out on me 😉. About 80 kias, maxed out, and it wouldn't really stay there, either...

Re-started the flight with WX back to real time (high & gusty, as per usual) just to see if the handling changed at all since initial release. Still needs a LOT more rudder than seems reasonable (regardless of winds, but even in no wind it's a bit much), but that's better than too little, I guess...

I'm still suspicious of flap (over)effectiveness in winds, but I'll continue to test that out.

The max altitude thing is a problem, for sure...

Hopefully @Martyn JF can have the team look into things, but I think this new version's a keeper after some work (where I had given up on the old FM in v2020).

8 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

And of course, SU2 installed.

Ah, yes.  2024 and SU2.  I'm still on 2020, and now I'm wondering if the 2024 version is part of the difference.

I will be moving to 2024 eventually.  Will revisit then, I expect.

 

Scott

Ah, yes, the flight modelling is completely different in 2024, you’ll most likely find a big improvement 

27 minutes ago, jon b said:

Ah, yes, the flight modelling is completely different in 2024, you’ll most likely find a big improvement 

The FM improvements on their Hawk v2 and this v2 Arrow vs the originals for MSFS (and P3D) are truly significant and welcome!

Yes, I was doing circuits in the hawk last night and it was a joy to fly.The landing and   roll out on a touch and go’s were really smooth and stable , you didn’t have to fight to keep it on the centre line, it actually felt like a real aircraft.

On 5/15/2025 at 11:46 PM, jfv said:

Yes, I found that you push one of those little white buttons on the AP, I think it was the top one, that it magically leveled off. I got real confused with the Arrow because I thought it would behave the same, but it doesn't.

Thanks

Found the button you identified. Better then the keystroke ALT HLD activation.

Arrow & Warrior have different AP set ups. Arrow ALT HLD is a click spot, being the outer ring of the rotating pointer to the right of the AP rocker switches. Have to position the mouse in there & when it turns blue, left click to activate. Same again to deactivate.

t45