Selective quoting and insulting Alan's impartiallity don't help your cause Signmanbob.Wilko81's original quote from the Ariane design website said "If your hard disk crashes you need to contact us again for us to re-enable activation but this will only be for special cases.". For whatever reason Signmanbob you decided to leave of the " but this will only be for special cases.". What on earth does this qualifier mean? What are these special cases? I think anyone reading that line would have to ask themselves if it is an acceptable risk to buy the Ariane Design 737. As has been mentioned by others there are other publishers who have registration systems which make the process of reinstalling software you have paid for much easier. Plus you don't have to wait a week for someone at Ariane Design to decide if you are worthy of a reactivation. If companies such as Flight1 can make this process quicker and less of a gamble then I don't see why Ariane Design needs to be any different.I haven't purchased the Ariane Design 737 but like many here I would like a high quality 737. The Ariane Design 737 may or may not be that aircraft (I'll wait for Alan's review thanks rather than listen to a really excited user and haters). But, also like many here, I have concerns about the registration system Ariane uses. I also have concerns about a company that supplies a PDF manual but disables the print function (this is according to the Flightsim.com review) so the only way to get a hard copy of the manual is by buying it from Ariane Design. I've never seen a company use this tactic before. Yes, I know LevelD supply a hardcopy manual for an extra price but they don't disable the print function in their PDF manual.

signmanbobYou seem to need some help reading this. :( Allow me to help you."If your hard disk crashes you need to contact us again for us to re-enable activation"

I disagree, as kwilson pointed out above, I actually managed read the full sentence on their website."If your hard disk crashes you need to contact us again for us to re-enable activation but this will only be for special cases"I also definitely remember reading somewhere on their website or a forum somewhere that they charged around

Guys, please calm down :-)The pros (not the "a really excited user" please) and the cons (not the "biased ones" please) have both the same rights and reasons to defend their opinion.The successive past threads which have fraught Ariane's history with failures can justify or reinforce suspicion.At the same time we can appreciate and be grateful that some folks have the courage of their convictions by paying tribute to Ariane if they like their products and wish to defend them.If you make a search here in Avsim you will see that ALL Ariane's thread have been locked because they were going south.This one is very interesting and constructive, let's continue.Thanks.

Okay, since this relates to purchasing the product and not to the product itself (which I can promise you, either good or bad I will review fairly), I'll let mention it here.As you know, I could not get World Pay to work (which is I believe Royal Bank of Scotland's system). Now, my comment about that might have been a little off the cuff with regard to my issues, but I thought it was neverhteless worth pointing out that when I tried to use a Visa card (Co-operative Bank) to pay via that system, it wouldn't work. The reason I was particularly puzzled by it was that when I keyed my details in, such as the long card number etc, it actually recognised what type of card I was using and said I'd have to try again using a different currency and not that it wouldn't work. There were three currency choices (Euro, Dollar and Sterling), but regardless of which I chose, and believe me I tried all three lots of times, it wouldn't let me proceed. So what I meant when I said about Ariane stuffing up, was that if I can manage to use that same card on the same day with both Flight 1 and MAAM to buy flight sim stuff as well as pay a domestic bill, then clearly it's not the wisest choice for Ariane to use for payments if a potential customer is prevented from buying with a card which seems to work everywhere else. Anyway, in my case I was a bit more tenacious and knew you could buy the product from SimMarket too, so that's what I did (with that same Co-op Visa card).Now, this is of particular relevance to anyone who is considering doing likewise: The activation process for the Ariane product is different when you buy it from SimMarket rather than Ariane directly. When you buy it from Ariane, you fire up FSX, and choose to activate the product from the far right FSX menu (where FSUIPC shows up), by entering a serial number which is emailed to you from Ariane, there is an option to request the serial via that menu which automatically cranks up Outlook Express and creates the message for you, or you can save the email in case you are using Thunderbird or some other email software and paste the message in yourself.However, with a SimMarket purchase, you get an additional PDF in the download with instructions on how to activate the product via a convoluted series of things you have to set up in FS settings (presumably in the manner of a sort of combination lock) which then should open up a dialogue box where you can enter your product purchase code and password. I say should, because it does not work, and the reason it does not work is because the PDF instructions you get in the download relate to a different product from Ariane, (i.e I bought the 737-900 ER for FSX and the installation instruction PDF refers to an earlier 737 model for FS9). So, I put a ticket in to SimMarket and at first got the usual automated response telling me to read the instructions, also it told me I would find them in the Ariane folder in FS, which is not correct, they come in the zipped file and don't install into the Ariane folder at all. Of course, even if you do read them it is to no avail since they are the incorrect instructions. so, I reopened the ticket and restated the problem, which got a few messageas going back and forth, and now SimMarket tell me that they have passed my query on to Ariane, so now I'm waiting for them to get in touch.I also suggested on the ticket to SimMarket that they look at this problem and update their zipped file so that other purchasers don't have to go through all these hoops.In the meantime, I tried to register with the Ariane forum, but that requires them to activate your account and they haven't done so as yet, although it is worth pointing out that this probably would not actually have helped me to activate the product, as it states in the rules when you register that the forum is not for activation issues, which should instead be dealt with via email. Oddly enough though, there is absolutely no delay if you register to buy the product, that gets approved via email instantly! In fairness (and I promise you I am going to be fair), Ariane have taken a bit of flak over the years for their security measures, and so it is understandable that they would want to limit their forum to people who have actually bought the product, given that there is a torrent widely available on the 'net for a cracked version of their FS9 737, so I can only hope that when I eventually get to see that forum that there will be some pinned threads to assist if you do have some installation problems, or at least some email contacts.It's worth noting however that the SimMarket page states the product has 'offline activation', and this is obviously not true at all. Even if the process they tell you to go through to install it had worked, it involves you sending an email, which is quite clearly not 'offline activation'. It also states that it should take about 30 minutes; clearly that one is out of the window by a big margin already, although to be fair it does say that on busy days it could take up to 48 hours. So, it being Easter weekend I am prepared to accept that it might be a while before Ariane get in touch, and I'm not really blaming them for this one, since the incorrect documentation is from SimMarket, but I thought with all the 'it wouldn't activate' stories you hear about Ariane products that it was worth relating this all to you.Incidentally, despite not activating, the 737 still loads into FSX, just without you being able to do much in the cockpit and all the displays blank, however, you can do the old Control+E to crank up the engines and fly it without instruments, open the doors, taxi it about etc, so I did a bit of that and it is indeed a very nice model of the 737-900, both inside and out. If you are used to the smaller 737s, with either this one or probably the PMDG 900 when that arrives also, you'd better get used to modifying your rotation on take off, because that thing is very long and invites a tail strike if you are overzealous with the pitch. Quite hard to taxi in comparison to a smaller 737, being so very long.Let's hope my wait for activation doesn't exhibit a similarly lengthy trait, eh?With regard to all the comments on this and other Ariane related threads (and Captain sim ones too occasionally), which can sometimes get a bit heated, I think we all need to take a step back and chill out a bit. We are all united by a love of aeroplanes and flight simming and although opinions differ; that's what makes things interesting. My wait for activation doesn't stop me from flying the Wilco 737, or the PMDG one, so as long as it gets sorted eventually, it's no big deal.Al

I took the plunge and ordered the Ariane 737-800 two days ago. I can assure all of you monitoring this thread that I will include my unbiased opinion (just as Alan) regarding this aircraft and my overall experience with Ariane. I purchased the aircraft direct from Ariane utilizing World Pay and a Visa card and I did not have any problems making the purchase.At this point in time, I will verify other aspects that Alan has already reported. I immediately installed the product after download to generate an activation request and emailed the request to the given email address. I also registered on the Ariane Forum. I have yet to receive any type of communication from Ariane either for the activation of the product which I purchased or for the activation of my account on Ariane's user forum.That is the short and sweet of it at this point. I hope I will be able to put this aircraft through some its paces this weekend but at this point in time I'm begining to wonder if that will actually happen.Alan, if you would like any input from me for your review, I will be more than happy to offer my thoughts and comments.Regards,Bob Modrowski

'Alan, if you would like any input from me for your review, I will be more than happy to offer my thoughts and comments.'Absolutely. If you find anything, PM me, and I'll do the same if I can find anything to smooth things out too. Obviously, as with any other serious (i.e expensive) add-on that gets reviewed for Avsim - and even the inexpensive ones for that matter - it takes more than a five minute circuit around the airfield to determine how good or bad something like a 737 is going to be, notwithstanding any other issues which may or may not be there, so if you discover stuff, it can only make a review better if your experience gets included. Contrary to popular belief, reviewing is not all freebies and fun, and can involve a lot of repetitive testing along the lines of being a beta, so your thoughts and input will certainly be welcome, and I'm sure not just by me.If you happened to read the recent Avsim review of the MD-80 by Angelique Van Campen, who was assisted by an MD-80 pilot, it's clear that where complex FS add-ons are concerned, two heads can definitely be better than one. It will also be interesting in that you went for the 800, whereas I went for the 900 ER; they may share a lot of the same qualities, but it will be nice to see aspects of both models given the fact that the expense involved in buying just one model from a range - a business model more than one developer is now employing - has come in for a bit of criticism.I'm in the fortunate position of being a bit of a fan of the 737, and whilst I won't pretend to know everything about it, I certainly know my fair share. That's probably the case with yourself too if you are prepared to take a punt on an unknown quantity for over 100 bucks, so I'd certainly value your opinion. I'm hoping whether good or bad, a review will settle what has become something of a perennial discussion in flight simming circles, which is why I thought it was worth stumping up the cash for what will clearly be an interesting test, and if it helps people make a more informed choice, well, we'll have done our bit, so thanks for that and I salute your similarly pioneering spirit Bob.Al

There is a whole cottage industry in MSFS, going back for a decade now, of "get-it-now" products for the impatient. We are all waiting on the REAL high-fidelity add-on and become wooed by a substitute. Often, the substitute is quite compelling: it has quite a few good features and is shiny and attractive. However, almost invariably, there's a gotcha: one company will have a dysfunctional support contract with its sub-contracted developers, another company will have a long, documented and dodgy history of apocryphal and spurious behavior. There are so few "real deal" developers in the airliner add-on business that it is easy to fall into the trap of the "get-it-now" add-on racket. I've walked down this path before and I'll take Daltry's advice: "... won't get fooled again..."..

One thing that I find highly amusing is Ariane's "activation" policy and procedures...I purchased the Ariane 737-700 BBJ CD package almost 2 years ago.. from Simmarket. When the disk arrived, I installed the software, only to discover that the activation codes provided by Simmarket were different than those required by the actual product. After 3 e-mails to Ariane about this, I finally received the "correct" code (via PDF)... which, unfortunately, didn't work. E-mails from Ariane implied I wasn't following the "correct" procedures for activating it. More e-mails to Ariane went unanswered and, in the end, I gave up... so now, almost 2 years later, I have a $70 software product that is unusable and a CD which is gathering dust in a drawer, all because of a company that feels they have to protect their "valuable" intellectual property with an activation process that is both highly buggy and tremendously unreliable!Now... Let's look at the activation requirements of another product (not sim-related, though) that is well-known to many here: Adobe Photoshop.Here is a VERY expensive product ($699.00 USD). When you purchase Adobe Photoshop (or in my case, Adobe CS4 Master - $2499.00USD) the activation is very simple. You install the product, enter your serial number, and then activate the product either by the web or by phone. Simple as pie! And to further that, if you want to install it on another computer, you can (in my situation, I have it on a desktop and on my laptop) No problem! You can activate the software up to six (6) times.. though you can have it ACTIVE on only two computers simultaneously. If, after 6 activations, you need to do install it again, a simple call to Adobe will reset your activation count back to zero. and NO FEES INVOLVED!!And when the software is revised.. guess what? I get an UPDATE for free! They don't make me pay for it again! They automatically send me an update and it installs itself without my having to do anything!So.. here we have a VERY expensive software package - FAR more complicated than Ariane's 737 - and FAR MORE PIRATED than anything Ariane could ever create, yet the process of installing, activating, and RE-ACTIVATING it is simple, painless, and far more liberal! And the software is tested, re-tested, and almost completely bug-free!In reality, a company like Adobe has FAR more to lose from piracy than Ariane does.. yet, oddly enough, they have a far more LIBERAL activation and re-installation process!Even PMDG (whose software is far more succeptible to piracy in the sim world than Ariane's) has a ridiculously simple installation and activation/reactivation process... and their software is infinitely more realistic, reliable, and well tested!It all boils down to this - Ariane is a company based on greed and whose operating policies are designed to nickel and dime their customers for every last cent that they can because, quite frankly, their software is buggy, unreliable and poorly done. They market their products with false claims of endorsement from Boeing (who would NEVER lend their name to a product so riddled with bugs!) and they tantalize their customers with contrived terminology describing "proprietary features" of their product.. and they seduce their customers with slick screenshots of eye candy. Yet, when that customer has finally made the purchase, all of those "superior features" are nowhere to be found and the consumer is left, in the end with a piece of junk. The people at Ariane know this.. and they know that they are far less likely to have RETURNING customers, so they must bilk the customers they DO have for as much as they can before those customers wise up and realize that they've forked out lots of cash for a vastly inferior product.It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that when more people complain about a company than those who praise it, there is a problem.But, sadly, people are gullible and want to believe that there is goodness in the world. And companies, like Ariane, will exploit that - all in the name of greed!- Alex

I can understand your point about paranoid security, after all, I'm currently still awaiting the activation of that 737 24 hours after having purchased it, but you do know Adobe took features out of the menus of the CS4 and CS3 versions of Photoshop when Flash became a CS product don't you? This was essentially so that you'd have to buy Flash as well as Photoshop in order to export SWF animations from PS if you didn't know exactly how to do it from the more recent versions, which buried the capability deeper than the average user would normally venture, so that you'd think it could not be done; look at 'export' on the file menu for the CS2 version of Photoshop and compare it to CS3 and CS4 if you don't believe me. And that's just one example.This is a problem Adobe are experiencing more and more as they buy up programs to include in CS: They box themselves into a corner where they cannot keep features in programs already part of CS, for fear of damaging the sales of other CS applications added to the CS oeuvre. So they remove features from the older CS applications in supposedly improved newer iterations of their applications. There is a way around these problems of course if you know the programs well, but they don't make it easy to find for the average user, and it's not meant to be either, because they want you to spend money on more CS applications. Kind of off topic a bit here of course, but I just thought I'd point out that holding up Adobe (which as you probably know is a company that also bought up Aldus so that they could run Freehand out of business in order to make Illustrator the only game in town for vector-based DTP drawing software) as the pantheon of goodness, is not a great choice. Trust me, I work for Adobe a lot, doing authorised training for them, and they are by no means the champions of liberalism you might think when it comes to making money. With regard to pirated copies of Photoshop, yes there are a lot of them, and Indesign, Illustrator, Dreamweaver etc, but those programs and indeed Photoshop, are production tools, and like Quark and all the other desktop publishing companies, Adobe know that the only way to permeate a program of that nature into widespread use in the industry when it costs so much, is to turn a blind eye to all the people who've got bent copies so that those people can learn how to use them, in order that they have the skills when they start work at a company which has legitmate licenses for Adobe stuff. If Photoshop is the product all the people in the industry have learned, then it becomes the industry standard for those people, which is why it costs so much.Believe me, I have the Adobe Certified Expert qualification for most Adobe CS apps and the Quark 8 Expert Trainer certification too (in fact I was the first person in the UK to ever get it), so I'm very familiar with these companies and the developers, and their stance on this matter, and it is exactly this way in which they view the matter, it's got nothing to do with good-natured liberalism, and if I had a quid for everyone I've ever trained on an advanced Photoshop course who told me they learned on a bent copy of Photoshop, I could probably afford a real Boeing 737.None of that is an excuse for a poor activation policy of course, but more an interesting aside.Al

.....David Roch......Well said.

....... I've walked down this path before and I'll take Daltry's advice: "... won't get fooled again..."..

I also have been burned with Ariane and a purchase several years ago of the (then) B739ER model that was the current product at the time. Needless to say, although I would like to use what I paid for and fly it, it remains un-installed in my FSX (my issue was a motherboard change after I had installed and activated it, and I got totally fed up with the attitude, paranoia and ignorance of those on the other end of what was then an archaic system of getting an activation code).What is wrong with the way that Flight One do it (although F1 might want nothing to do with Ariane). What is wrong with the way that PMDG do it- totally automated, and if you do have trouble someone is right there to help- someone who doesn't immediately assume that you are a pirate or a bad person.So- obviously I made a scene at the time. How do I know that if I pay the $$, get a download link, install the product, then be denied an activation as I am seen as someone on their "black list"? This is effectively how I felt last time in trying to get a new activation code for a new motherboard. I've been on this site since day one, and I hope that anyone that knows me would acknowledge that I am not out to steal someone's product.Thanks, Bruce.

I also have been burned with Ariane and a purchase several years ago of the (then) B739ER model that was the current product at the time. Needless to say, although I would like to use what I paid for and fly it, it remains un-installed in my FSX (my issue was a motherboard change after I had installed and activated it, and I got totally fed up with the attitude, paranoia and ignorance of those on the other end of what was then an archaic system of getting an activation code).

brucek, Ariane didn't make a product for FSX until last year. :( How could have you had it several years ago! :(

so don't address the paragraphs... just play the semantics game. so how much does Ariane pay you for this?

so don't address the paragraphs... just play the semantics game. so how much does Ariane pay you for this?

If this is your contribution to this thread we can do without you

brucek, Ariane didn't make a product for FSX until last year. :( How could have you had it several years ago! :(

This incident was December of 2007. Maybe it was for FS9 (but I really thought FSX), but that's not the point- nothing that a customer could possibly screw up, other than the obvious illegal stuff like copying or pirating software, should attract the kind of response that I received from Ariane. I just can't wait until there is some real competition from PMDG, it will be very interesting to see what happens then. Right now the FSX crowd are salivating for a good B73NG.Bruce.