21 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Steam Charts gives us a good idea of the PC market.  The breakdown of MSFS 2020 to MSFS 2024 users on SteamDB was close to the results of the Navigraph survey this year.

Whille the users of MSFS 2020 and 2024 in the Microsoft store on PC don't necesarily have to follow the SteamDB charts, it probably does.

The XBox and PS market is something else, I use SteamDB to get a general picture for the PC market only.

Same issue. Navigraph is another nice example of an in our peer group renowned survey but with a relatively small sample size that is actually reflecting a lot of us hardcore users but not the rest of users. And Steam Chart will give you a general picture of PC market of Steam users only. They may again have different preferences than non Steam Users. I use steam too, but not for MSFS. And MSFS on steam is just approx a one digit percentage of all MSFS users that prob have again other preferences than general users. As long as MS is keeping the overall usage and distribution numbers on platforms secret we can only speculate. Steam Charts may be close to real usage but don't have to be. 

I still fly 2020 and have no real intention of switching to 24 anytime soon.  I just don’t see the need.  2020 is great in every way and I have it set up and running exactly as I like.  I’m fine with whatever sacrifices I’m making as long as 2020 continues to perform and look as great as it does- I’m very happy.

57 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Steam Charts gives us a good idea of the PC market.  The breakdown of MSFS 2020 to MSFS 2024 users on SteamDB was close to the results of the Navigraph survey this year.

I'd caution though that the Navigraph survey skews towards advanced users and is likely not representative of the MSFS user base as a whole.

58 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Whille the users of MSFS 2020 and 2024 in the Microsoft store on PC don't necesarily have to follow the SteamDB charts, it probably does.

I can think of at least one reason why this may not hold. Steam users are likely to be more "aviation savvy" than Store users, hence more likely to use addons such as the PMDG 737 that don't support 2024 yet, and to use 2020 as a result.

I think you shouldn't be afraid to acknowledge these statistical biases because, if anything, they strengthen the argument I think you're trying to make: If even the grumpy hardcore users are switching to 2024, that's likely to be true even more so for the total user base.

For my kind of "flying" I'm happy enough to stay with 2020 for now. Might even hold out until 2028makes an appearance. Maybe RAM prices will come down by then as well!

1 hour ago, martinboehme said:

I'd caution though that the Navigraph survey skews towards advanced users and is likely not representative of the MSFS user base as a whole.

Definitely agree.. I always consider the Navigraph survey to represent the views/opinions/trends of the "serious" simmer community well. It's also why the add-on developers pay very close attention to it.
 

9 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

Definitely agree.. I always consider the Navigraph survey to represent the views/opinions/trends of the "serious" simmer community well. It's also why the add-on developers pay very close attention to it.
 

At least the serious devs do... I don't think mscenery even knows what navigraph is 😄

In a very recent interview with FSelite, Jorg reconfirmed that 2024 has had the most players for a while now. I'd say the Steam numbers are an indicator that 2024's lead has been stretched a bit.

The Steam data has long been one of those hammers people use to beat in how much of a "failure" 2024 was. Which is why it's an important milestone. 

SU4, and the impending 737 are likely going to keep pushing those numbers up. Even on my modest system (8gb 3060ti) I have better performance than 2020. The 737 also removes another "but..." goalpost.

If you check on IVAO Webeye, I think msfs still has the edge over msfs24. Not by a lot of margin, but still ahead.

5 minutes ago, sdirand said:

IVAO Webeye,

WIth IVAO, I'm kinda not surprised. It's too bad we can't get a number from Vatsim.

4 hours ago, martinboehme said:

Steam users are likely to be more "aviation savvy" than Store users,

You base that assumption on exactly what? I have used the Store versions of 2020 and 2024 since day 1. And whilst there is no need to define “aviation savvy” I worked in ATC for 45 years and have been simming since FS1.

8 hours ago, bailout said:

I very much doubt it. I am pretty certain that the percentage of users who own or care much about one very expensive and advanced third party add on is very small.

This is how I feel, tho I recognize that PMDG is a very popular developer with “serious simmers”.

but in the end, it’s relative. E.g., of the many millions of players, how many are simmers? How many are holding on to 2020 just because of one addon (when there are so many others from which to choose, including PMDG’s own 777…?

anyhow, fascinating to see these trends no matter what! 👍

5 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

Steam Charts gives us a good idea of the PC market.  The breakdown of MSFS 2020 to MSFS 2024 users on SteamDB was close to the results of the Navigraph survey this year.

Whille the users of MSFS 2020 and 2024 in the Microsoft store on PC don't necesarily have to follow the SteamDB charts, it probably does.

The XBox and PS market is something else, I use SteamDB to get a general picture for the PC market only.

It’s still VERY dangerous to  make these assumptions. 

Steam has a demographic all its own, and from what we’ve heard various times it isn’t the majority user base. 

especially so for MSFS due to its availability on GamePass. 

And we know for a fact that the Navigraph data is HIGHLY skewed towards the “serious simmer” and isn’t representative of the general user base. 

really only Microsoft knows, and they don’t share much. But when they do, it tends to run counter to conclusions drawn from Steam. 🤙

3 hours ago, Krakin said:

In a very recent interview with FSelite, Jorg reconfirmed that 2024 has had the most players for a while now. I'd say the Steam numbers are an indicator that 2024's lead has been stretched a bit.

Yes.

we should also remember that Steam stats are generally measured in Concurrent users, which in itself is highly misleading. 

48 minutes ago, SierraDelta said:

5 hours ago, martinboehme said:

Steam users are likely to be more "aviation savvy" than Store users,

You base that assumption on exactly what? I have used the Store versions of 2020 and 2024 since day 1. And whilst there is no need to define “aviation savvy” I worked in ATC for 45 years and have been simming since FS1.

I think you misunderstood me. I was talking about likelihoods, not absolutes. Of course there are users of all backgrounds on both Store and Steam.

When I wrote "aviation savvy", I was thinking of the hardcore simmer crowd, the kind that hang out here. I've often heard the recommendation here to use Steam because it's easier to switch in and out of the beta, among other things. I would assume that casual users are less aware that MSFS is even offered on Steam because the Store is the default choice that is promoted on the website. Hence my assumption that Steam users are more likely to be "hardcore" users who, in turn, are likely to be more "aviation savvy" than the average user.