4 hours ago, virtuali said:

about Vatsim, I would like to clarify the problem with GSX been fixed a long while ago by Ross Carlson, author of vPilot, with a vPilot update.

The real cause of the problem was:

- GSX must freeze the airplane when using a towbarless tug that raises the front gear. It wouldn't work otherwise.

- When the airplane is frozen, the simulator doesn't freeze the airplane body velocity variables. One might say this could be a design flaw in the sim, since I don't see what's the point to keep updating the acceleration variables after the airplane is frozen, but that's how the sim works.

- vPilot used a common network optimization method used by online games: instead of sending only the airplane positions, it uses the body acceleration variables to locally interpolate and predict the position for all connected planes, including pitch/bank/heading and since those variables didn't stop and kept their values, the last pitch acceleration caused by GSX raising the gear kept its previous value long after GSX stopped raising the gear, so vPilot was fooled thinking the airplane continued to being pitched up, but it wasn't, since it was now frozen.

- After a long troubleshooting process and having tried a fix from GSX side, by constantly rewriting all the acceleration variables to 0 at each frame, which improved a bit but was still constantly fighting against MSFS that also wanted to rewrite the variables, we found the best solution was a fix from vPilot, which was easy enough: if the airplane is frozen, it would stop to use the acceleration variables to predict the plane attitude, and that fixed of planes pitched up on Vatsim when pushed back by GSX using a Towbarless tug.

Hi, I think you misunderstood, because I have no idea what you are talking about 🙂 I was actually saying "I can't use Vatsim *without* GSX because I need a proper pushback tool"

Well, I had a good look around and found that - for basic ground vehicles like stair trucks and luggage loaders, there is literally no competition for, or alternative to, GSX.  There was one free addon on FS.TO but it didn't add it's own ground vehicles, it was just an interface for calling the stock ground vehicles.

Absolutely crazy to me that no-one has filled the gap for a simple ground services addon, that can add stair trucks, luggage loaders, etc (for example, the things that come with the PMDG ground services) on demand.

So if you are flying an airliner and want to avoid situations where the aircraft dev has not provided any stair trucks or luggage loaders - and your passengers are facing having to jump out! ..... GSX is the only option.

The thing is I don't even want 90% of what GSX offers.   I also will not install anything on my PC that use's FSDT's "Couatl" software.  I had truly miserable pain from that program in the past, didn't receive good service and - despite the assurances - will not be going back there again. 

I'm looking for just a small slice of immersion that comes from having stair trucks and luggage loaders next to the plane!  If all complex aircraft addon developers would provide these necessary ground vehicles - like PMDG and Fenix do - this problem wouldn't exist.  Instead, you're flying the TFDi MD-11, Ini A340 or Aerosoft A346;  you have all those doors! .... and they're just sitting open with nothing attached to them.   As you may be able to tell, this has been really bugging me since getting back into airliner flying.   There was no such problem with light GA 😄

These devs aim for maximum realism and immersion, then don't even provide a way for passengers to get out of the plane, when not using a jetway!

Edited March 16Mar 16 by JYW

11 minutes ago, JYW said:

I also will not install anything on my PC that use's FSDT's "Couatl" software.  I had truly miserable pain from that program in the past, didn't receive good service and - despite the assurances - will not be going back there again. 

I understand the sentiment behind this as I felt similarly in the past and was happy to say bye to GSX, but you're ignoring the new reality that you are basing your 'not going back there again...' orientation on.  Couatl is essentially trouble-free now, and by that I mean as trouble-free is nearly anything is in MSFS 2024 sim world.   So for modest cost you will get well done ground services and if pushback is all you care about you can limit use to it alone.   Good luck.

18 minutes ago, Noel said:

I understand the sentiment behind this as I felt similarly in the past and was happy to say bye to GSX, but you're ignoring the new reality that you are basing your 'not going back there again...' orientation on.  Couatl is essentially trouble-free now, and by that I mean as trouble-free is nearly anything is in MSFS 2024 sim world.   So for modest cost you will get well done ground services and if pushback is all you care about you can limit use to it alone.   Good luck.

Definitely not trouble free for me, and this was the latest version. This is why PMDG moved away from supporting GSX. The amount of problem inquiries they must have had related to GSX must have been crazy. 

1 hour ago, RobJC said:

Definitely not trouble free for me, and this was the latest version. This is why PMDG moved away from supporting GSX. The amount of problem inquiries they must have had related to GSX must have been crazy. 

Probably a lot has to do with exactly how one uses GSX.  It *should* be more troublesome for me since I also must integrate it with Self Loading Cargo, and yet it's been good in that regard as well.  Just curious:  what troubles are you having with it currently?  

2 hours ago, Noel said:

Probably a lot has to do with exactly how one uses GSX.  It *should* be more troublesome for me since I also must integrate it with Self Loading Cargo, and yet it's been good in that regard as well.  Just curious:  what troubles are you having with it currently?  

I tried it with the Fenix, 777, MD-11 and A350. Lost the top menu loading one time. Got audio set parking brakes another time. EFB wouldn't load in the Fenix another time. All seemingly unrelated issues that all magically showed up the day I started using GSX, and I have not experienced once since I uninstalled it. But the few times it did work, awesome. Really added to the immersion. 

4 hours ago, RobJC said:

I tried it with the Fenix, 777, MD-11 and A350. Lost the top menu loading one time. Got audio set parking brakes another time. EFB wouldn't load in the Fenix another time. All seemingly unrelated issues that all magically showed up the day I started using GSX, and I have not experienced once since I uninstalled it. But the few times it did work, awesome. Really added to the immersion. 

Well give it another try sometime your story sounds like it could have been other issues and as you say it does add to the immersion.  It fits well into my personal ritual.  In the Fenix I typically walk out from under the plane at launch, summon the stairs from GSX, watch them roll into position, then walk up the stairs, open the door, walk in then leave the flight deck door open until the flight attendants arrive.  I'll start to setup the pre-flight and when I hear the announcement that passengers are arriving might walk out of the flight deck into the main cabin and watch the passenger start to head for the stairs out of the bus.  From there back in, sit down and shut the FD door.  It all works very well with SLC.

13 hours ago, JYW said:

The thing is I don't even want 90% of what GSX offers.   I also will not install anything on my PC that use's FSDT's "Couatl" software.  I had truly miserable pain from that program in the past, didn't receive good service and - despite the assurances - will not be going back there again. 

You're living in the past with this. It used to crash and do some weird stuff....havn't seen that in ages now. 

15 hours ago, JYW said:

Absolutely crazy to me that no-one has filled the gap for a simple ground services addon, that can add stair trucks, luggage loaders, etc (for example, the things that come with the PMDG ground services) on demand.

Not particularly surprising. It’s exhaustive work to do something fairly simple that’ll work with most if not all planes.

GSX for all of its fancy features they all work on the same principle of that exhaustive work. 
 

So when majority of people’s needs are met, why put in hundreds maybe thousands of hours of work to essentially create a GSX-lite? More so how would you even price it so that people don’t think GSX is a better deal whilst you also can make some decent ROI? 

17 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

I think you misunderstood, because I have no idea what you are talking about 🙂 I was actually saying "I can't use Vatsim *without* GSX because I need a proper pushback tool"

I understood you perfectly: I just used your post related to Vatsim as an "anchor" to explain what really happened with that in-famous issue that resulted in users pushing with GSX being seen with the airplane completely pitched up/down by other Vatsim users, which many assumed to be a GSX bug, when in fact was just a result of the combination of the sim not freezing the acceleration variables when the airplane is frozen, and the vPilot client relying on the acceleration data to predict the attitude of the local representation of other players.

I can't understand the critic's of GSX. Maybe most probably they don't know how to use it. Especially in combination with the Fenix it works like a charm. And i like the constant and very fast development. In the last 12 month the only "hickup" i had was updating i afterwards has some pink textures. But as i understand that is due to the fact how the update process works via cloudflare and even for that case it is taken care of via the offline installer. I think the biggest problem is that people are not able to read and understand a manual. If i read some of the comments here i wonder how the people are able to plan and do a flight from A to B.  And also i don't see any performance issue with GSX, in fact most of the time (cruise) it's kind of disabled. 

And i'm impressed by @virtuali who does not get tired to put false statements right, even with detailed explanation  

17 hours ago, RobJC said:

777, MD-11 and A350

Sounds like something else may have been going on … I’ve used GSX for MSFS 2024 on those 3 aircraft without any issues (with prior GSX versions).  GSX has a logging feature that is very detailed, did you take a look and see if there are any oddities?  

I did have issues when using GSX MSFS 2020 airport Profile in MSFS 2024.  And setting up GSX profiles is time consuming and if not done correctly can lead to odd issues.  

I’d happily pay for GSX profiles for an airport which covers all possible aircraft locations at the airport … that’s a lot of work I’d be happy to pay for.

Not saying GSX is perfect, it’s not, but it’s the best “services” tool I’ve used.  XP12 has similar services add-on but they are not as in depth as GSX.  GSX developer is very responsive (we get many updates and new features) and perhaps a little defensive (which I can understand given the amount of work required to get even close) … that human material (aka pride).

Edited March 17Mar 17 by SayAgain

It's quite ironic that I started this thread by suggesting that basic ground vehicles (especially stair trucks) were important to me, and that landing an airliner at an airport with no jetways, and seeing open doors with no stairs was an immersion killer.

............. because paradoxically, the very thing that would give me that - GSX - is personally a bridge to far for me.  What I mean is that I personally, just don't want to be thinking about or checking GSX profiles for every airport I depart from or land at.  Then hunting for GSX profiles that I am missing.  It's just not a game I want to play. I appreciate that others do, and are happy to maintain their stock of GSX profiles, looking for new ones as they pick up new airports, that don't come with a profile.

For me, that cost is too high, to get me those stair trucks. 😊

But I've learned from this thread that we are almost certainly not going to get a 'simple' ground services addon for MSFS.

It must be the case that managing how ground trucks and aircraft doors etc align must be more complex in MSFS than in X-Plane.   Because in X-Plane, there is a free addon that provides a whole range of ground vehicles, stairs, etc, that - in 95% of cases - aligns it's ground truck models with doors etc, accurately.   - with no profiles required.  It must be able to read door positioning and geometry data from the XP aircraft's ACF file, and then line the trucks up with them.

It's a shame that such an approach is apparantly not possible in MSFS.

So, as i apply some radical acceptance (a term my sister is currently obsessed with!), my MD-11, A343, A346 and other airliner passengers are going to have to continue to jump out of the aircraft after the flight 😊
 

With all of this in mind, I'm going to transfer my energy towards aircraft developers including at the very least, stair trucks with their complex addons.   I'm going to send some pushy emails and request / suggest that such a feature, where currently missing, would make the experience much more immersive. 👍😎   I will not rest until we have those stair trucks! (So therefore, I will probably never rest!).

Shout out to PMDG and Fenix for providing stair trucks with their aircraft's ground services 😎

3 hours ago, JYW said:

But I've learned from this thread that we are almost certainly not going to get a 'simple' ground services addon for MSFS.

I get where you are coming from, but I still think GSX is the best simple option provided your airports provide good GSX profiles.  iniBuilds has been good about providing GSX profiles for the airports sold by them.

There are other aspects to GSX vehicle animations that can also deter from the realism/immersion such as front steering wheels at full lock (sometimes full lock in the wrong direction of travel), no relationship between actual vehicle direction arc and steering arc. 

Ideal world is I pull up to a stand and all the appropriate vehicles, jetways, etc. operate without my prompting like they would in the real world.  For departure, turn beacon on and they all get setup for pushback.  I think GSX services and facilities can be triggered by a Beacon light going ON or OFF … but not sure.  Might also be nice if GSX had a “automatic” mode we can select for a stand profile so that services and stair and jetways all start to operate as soon as engines off.

I certainly think GSX can be extended to be more “automated” provide GSX profiles exist for the airport.

From a customer airport purchase perspective, having a GSX profile as part of the airport purchase price would sway me in that direction vs. an airport that doesn’t have GSX profile.

So in summary, I think what you desire is possible with a future GSX and key is support from 3rd party airport developers … not much is really needed from the aircraft developer, maybe a few simvars (maybe not even that) … let the aircraft developer focus on the aircraft as it should be.

On 3/16/2026 at 3:51 AM, zachlog said:

If you're looking for a no frills pushback tool that does not add risk to the stability and reliability of your simulator environment, I recommend the Toolbar Pushback from flightsim.to.  It works in MSFS 2024 just like MSFS 2020 but with a couple of limitations.  No automated pushback/manual only and no voice support.  Both of these limitations are non-issues for me. 

Is this the case on your side?
Toolbar Pushback performs automated, pre-planned pushbacks without any issues in ms FS24.