21 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

This is irrelevant. Same thing as talking about how great MSFS 2028 will be. 

I think it can be relevant for someone who wants to invest in XP12 and finds the scenery outdated. Knowing that it’s being worked on a fully new scenery can absolutely help taking a decision to invest time getting familiar with XP and buying addons, knowing that in a not too far future the whole invest could be worth it.

53 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

I think it can be relevant for someone who wants to invest in XP12 and finds the scenery outdated. Knowing that it’s being worked on a fully new scenery can absolutely help taking a decision to invest time getting familiar with XP and buying addons, knowing that in a not too far future the whole invest could be worth it.

Thats funny. 🙂

1 hour ago, Torkermax said:

Thats funny. 🙂

Why?

Thank you to all of you for taking the time. I'll digest all the information a bit more this coming weekend and will start with the demo. 

1 hour ago, Torkermax said:

Thats funny. 🙂

???

4 hours ago, mldavis2 said:

First, it depends on the scenery, and you never know when you purchase add-on scenery if their libraries will contain objects that violate X-Plane geometry.  The internet forums  are full of complaints of scenery incompatibility, much of it built for XP11.  Some works, some does not.  It's a word not allowed shoot because X-Plane is constantly being re-coded for things like multi-threading, atmospheric layers, terrain mesh, etc.

Second, LR is updating scenery constantly with each update for the current version.  I'm not expecting XP13 any time soon, so we can forget that.  Constant Gateway updates are being filtered into each and every new update, and scenery artists are being afforded new and better objects for inclusion in their work within XP12 with each update to XP12.

All I care about is how the scenery looks & runs in my sim. And at least for my use case, I just don’t run into problems that materially affect my experience enough to cease using the scenery. 

I can probably count on one hand the number of scenery addons I’ve stopped using due to issues. 

nobody’s debating the constant improvement of XP scenery. Just that it’s neither fast enough nor wide enough to make current scenery obsolete. 🤙

2 hours ago, Franz007 said:

I think it can be relevant for someone who wants to invest in XP12 and finds the scenery outdated. Knowing that it’s being worked on a fully new scenery can absolutely help taking a decision to invest time getting familiar with XP and buying addons, knowing that in a not too far future the whole invest could be worth it.

It’s false hope to talk about it “soon” 

either XP 12 looks good enough today, with or without addons that are available today, or it doesn’t. 🤙

11 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

It’s false hope to talk about it “soon” 

either XP 12 looks good enough today, with or without addons that are available today, or it doesn’t. 🤙

I haven’t used « soon ». And calling it ‘false hope’ only makes sense if everyone buys a sim for what it looks like today. Many don’t. Long‑term users evaluate both the current state and the confirmed direction of development. You may have a different strategy when investing into a plateform but I doubt that you can speak for everyone.

Edited March 28Mar 28 by Franz007

12 hours ago, Franz007 said:

I haven’t used « soon ». And calling it ‘false hope’ only makes sense if everyone buys a sim for what it looks like today. Many don’t. Long‑term users evaluate both the current state and the confirmed direction of development. You may have a different strategy when investing into a plateform but I doubt that you can speak for everyone.

I guess it’s all my years working in the technology field and having been burned so many times by what turned out to be vaporware. 

And, of course, having to commit to significant expenditures to solve today’s problems with today’s solutions, and not in promises of what’s to come  

So while I do pay attention  to roadmaps, I pay more attention to current rate of change, and the MOST attention to what’s been delivered. 

Thise last two are what keep me coming back to XP. 

The roadmap? It’s irrelevant to a purchase decision made today, especially given the rapid rate of andvancement across the simulation genre. 

4 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

The roadmap? It’s irrelevant to a purchase decision made today, especially given the rapid rate of andvancement across the simulation genre. 

This approach may be valid for you, but it doesn’t define how everyone else evaluates a long‑term simulator.

But if users truly ignored future development, studios wouldn’t publish roadmaps, communities wouldn’t discuss them, and media wouldn’t analyze them. Users constantly base their decisions on future development — whether it’s waiting for XP12, choosing MSFS2024, or even deciding which PC hardware to buy. That’s why studios publish roadmaps, why media reports on them, and why users discuss them.

5 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

I guess it’s all my years working in the technology field and having been burned so many times by what turned out to be vaporware. 

And, of course, having to commit to significant expenditures to solve today’s problems with today’s solutions, and not in promises of what’s to come  

So while I do pay attention  to roadmaps, I pay more attention to current rate of change, and the MOST attention to what’s been delivered. 

Thise last two are what keep me coming back to XP. 

The roadmap? It’s irrelevant to a purchase decision made today, especially given the rapid rate of andvancement across the simulation genre. 

There is more to it that that.

Firstly, new users should really get a feel for the sim in default before loading up with addons. Especially as xplane is so fast moving that even the most popular addons break sometimes, while xplane default is mostly rock solid.

But more importantly, its not just that existing scenery addons will be very obsoleted by the next gen scenery in a "soonish" timeframe (worst case less than a year, very likely longer).

I have a fair bit of scenery addons. Free and paid. Some of which was bought fairly recently, currently not using any of it because default is in most cases better looking and always more performant.

So for now, get used to default, play with some freeware.

In terms of payware. Hotstarts CL650, Toliss getting highly recommended for next things to spend on.

Sparky744 and Zibo essential freeware in my totally unbiased opinion

52 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

This approach may be valid for you, but it doesn’t define how everyone else evaluates a long‑term simulator.

But if users truly ignored future development, studios wouldn’t publish roadmaps, communities wouldn’t discuss them, and media wouldn’t analyze them. Users constantly base their decisions on future development — whether it’s waiting for XP12, choosing MSFS2024, or even deciding which PC hardware to buy. That’s why studios publish roadmaps, why media reports on them, and why users discuss them.

I respect your perspective 🙂🤙

I can almost gurantee that the first flightsim you picked up. You did because it was fun and looked interesting. It seems the fun bit has gone extinct. I fly xplane because its fun. Keeps my brain working mostly. And just enjoy what comes. If your past that. Time to quit and do chilli eating comps or something.

1 hour ago, mjrhealth said:

I can almost gurantee that the first flightsim you picked up. You did because it was fun and looked interesting. It seems the fun bit has gone extinct. I fly xplane because its fun. Keeps my brain working mostly. And just enjoy what comes. If your past that. Time to quit and do chilli eating comps or something.

Couldn’t agree more. No fun, what’s the use?

Loved reading this. I've been considering upgrading to xplane 12 but haven't convinced myself to do it. I think the variety of clouds and the atmospheric effects (lighting, cloud variety, and horizon haze) are better done than MSFS, grated it can be hit or miss at times. I just dread dropping more cash to get a collection of study level aircraft I was to fly and possibly wanting more add-on's for QoL reasons.