The RealAir Lancair flew nice. I actually make a $60k down payment on the first kit group. But alas life butted in.

dd

Edited May 16May 16 by Sky_Pilot071

The RealAir Lancair flew nice.

dd

I loved the real air. One of my most flown. Knowing what I know now though - that flight model was too easy. Not easy to make as I know Rob spent a multitude of hours on it. But too simple to fly. The FSW is much more accurate and very sensitive - the flight model expert (and owner of N321TF) on the team is a former NASA engineer as well. He'll be improving it if needed as the product progresses to final.

Personally I feel that once you start getting above $40 in the MSFS GA market you need to be offering something exceptional not just a bigger pile of decent.

Edited May 16May 16 by Matchstick

I'll be honest based on what they've delivered now and I've been flying today it's not close to A2A quality, so I personally think the price is far higher than can be justified.

I caved and picked up the FSW Legacy and have to agree.

There is a lot to like and the maintenance and other custom features are good, but IMHO, it definitely feels it's been released too soon. It just lacks polish.

The big disappointment for me is the hand-flying characteristics. It feels really off and just not convincing to me.

It seems to have some huge drag going on. Getting it moving from standstill takes around 50% throttle. Take off is just odd. It's supposed to rotate at 80kts, but with full power, some nose-up trim and one of two notches of flaps, if you attempt to rotate at 80, nothing happens. It builds up more speed but feels very reluctant to break from the ground. Then all of a sudden - BAM! It jerks up into the air, rolls left and right a little and feels like it's going to stall. It's a really ungraceful take-off. In the climb it's very twitchy. Now I know all about the Legacy, it's light weight and that big IO-550, but it just feels really, really off. I have never flown a Legacy IRL but real Legacy pilots have complimented the Aerobask Legacy 550 for XP12 for it's handling realism, and this plane feels nothing like that. It also feels nothing like the RealAir Lanceair. It feels like the dev is struggling to get the FDE to do what it needs to do in a plane like this. It's like a lot of 2024 releases these days - mushy! (Think SWS PC-12 on release!). Light and responsive controls shouldn't necessarily mean a lack of all natural stability through the air. Approach is similar but not as bad. The pitch doesn't seem to respond to increased flap extention and at 100kts on final with flaps on the second to last setting, it feels close to the stall and just mushes all of the place. I tried a flapless take off and - as expected - it was even harder to break ground, then in a split second, jerked nose up into the air, waved around all over the place and then finally settled when it had reached around 120kts.

I would say the flight dynamics on this thing need a lot of work and, as it currently stands, despite a drop-dead gorgeous cockpit, I don't enjoy flying it.

EDIT: I've just read Ryan's comments and here's the thing. FDE in a flight sim can never replicate real motion. So everything comes down to translation rather than 1:1 replication. I just don't think that this is how even a sensitive aircraft like the Legacy should feel in the sim. In the real Legacy, the pilot can feel those surfaces coming to life and, through the rotation, the pilot feels truly connected to the flight surfaces, due to that instinctive feel. With this model, I can't foresee any way of being able to make a graceful take-off. There is no transition between the flight surfaces not creating lift and generating that lift. Rotating the elevator just results in nothing, followed by the harshest possible split second moment when it goes from not rotating, to over-rotating.

The sales page does state that FSW are still working on the FDE, so I am hoping it will develop and feel more convincing.

Edited May 17May 17 by JYW

That's very different than my opinion. Granted I love fast GA. So this was a no brainer to me. Fast, flies pretty well, touchy but true to life flight model, support for turbocharged engine, onboard O2, beautiful g3x and GTNxi integration (I use TDS much more realistic), amazing sounds, gorgeous visuals....not to mention failures and saved states plus the 2024 native goodies (walk-around, dirt and grime accumulation, paint effects such as metallic flake and orange peel)...there's more but I'm mobile so I'm not writing a wall of words haha.

We don't even see the analog panel yet I'm sure that will have GNS/GTN/GTNxi support.

I find the price to be totally fair. You essentially have two engines and two totally different cockpits for less than 50 USD....in this current economy, where everything costs more and more.

And p.s. black square is on the a2a level. A2A goes external therefore they have a slightly better flight model but black square does much more interesting aircraft with deeper systems. Any A2A or Black Square is an insta buy for me!

Well that’s GREAT to hear! 😁

And I agree with the value prop you’ve shared above.

Yes, Different than how A2A or BS offer, but yeah - plenty of extra features there to flesh out what they’re asking for it.

Based on their complete feature set, and as long as flies well and works as advertised, I’m good with it. 🙂

Personally I feel that once you start getting above $40 in the MSFS GA market you need to be offering something exceptional not just a bigger pile of decent.

But isn’t that really what, for e.g., Just Flight do with their BAe 146…? And similarly, PMDG with their 738…?

I caved and picked up the FSW Legacy and have to agree.

There is a lot to like and the maintenance and other custom features are good, but IMHO, it definitely feels it's been released too soon. It just lacks polish.

The big disappointment for me is the hand-flying characteristics. It feels really off and just not convincing to me.

It seems to have some huge drag going on. Getting it moving from standstill takes around 50% throttle. Take off is just odd. It's supposed to rotate at 80kts, but with full power, some nose-up trim and one of two notches of flaps, if you attempt to rotate at 80, nothing happens. It builds up more speed but feels very reluctant to break from the ground. Then all of a sudden - BAM! It jerks up into the air, rolls left and right a little and feels like it's going to stall. It's a really ungraceful take-off. In the climb it's very twitchy. Now I know all about the Legacy, it's light weight and that big IO-550, but it just feels really, really off. I have never flown a Legacy IRL but real Legacy pilots have complimented the Aerobask Legacy 550 for XP12 for it's handling realism, and this plane feels nothing like that. It also feels nothing like the RealAir Lanceair. It feels like the dev is struggling to get the FDE to do what it needs to do in a plane like this. It's like a lot of 2024 releases these days - mushy! (Think SWS PC-12 on release!). Light and responsive controls shouldn't necessarily mean a lack of all natural stability through the air. Approach is similar but not as bad. The pitch doesn't seem to respond to increased flap extention and at 100kts on final with flaps on the second to last setting, it feels close to the stall and just mushes all of the place. I tried a flapless take off and - as expected - it was even harder to break ground, then in a split second, jerked nose up into the air, waved around all over the place and then finally settled when it had reached around 120kts.

I would say the flight dynamics on this thing need a lot of work and, as it currently stands, despite a drop-dead gorgeous cockpit, I don't enjoy flying it.

EDIT: I've just read Ryan's comments and here's the thing. FDE in a flight sim can never replicate real motion. So everything comes down to translation rather than 1:1 replication. I just don't think that this is how even a sensitive aircraft like the Legacy should feel in the sim. In the real Legacy, the pilot can feel those surfaces coming to life and, through the rotation, the pilot feels truly connected to the flight surfaces, due to that instinctive feel. With this model, I can't foresee any way of being able to make a graceful take-off. There is no transition between the flight surfaces not creating lift and generating that lift. Rotating the elevator just results in nothing, followed by the harshest possible split second moment when it goes from not rotating, to over-rotating.

The sales page does state that FSW are still working on the FDE, so I am hoping it will develop and feel more convincing.

word not allowed. that’s a no go for me, then.

I do have the Aerobask Lancair RG in XP and it’s quite nice to fly. I’ve nothing to compare it with IRL, but it handles as a small, light, powerful aircraft should (IMHO).

Was really hoping for similar performance here as some of the MSFS flight models are coming along nicely.

But the kind of takeoff and landing behavior you’ve described is not only inaccurate but unacceptable.

Okay, well I’m gonna have to wait for consistently good feedback on the physics before I’m willing to jump on it.

OTOH/Food for Thought: the couple who own the IRL Starhawk are literal rocket scientists for NASA, and have been deeply involved in the development of this addon.

I’d be shocked if they approved such poor physics, so I’m hoping there’s some issue with deployment or some such.

But isn’t that really what, for e.g., Just Flight do with their BAe 146…? And similarly, PMDG with their 738…?

Those aren’t GA ;)

I don’t fly airliners anywhere near as much to have formed a similar opinion

(Though my limited experience of the 146 and RJ would put those in the exceptional category)

Edited May 17May 17 by Matchstick

word not allowed. that’s a no go for me, then.

I do have the Aerobask Lancair RG in XP and it’s quite nice to fly. I’ve nothing to compare it with IRL, but it handles as a small, light, powerful aircraft should (IMHO).

Was really hoping for similar performance here as some of the MSFS flight models are coming along nicely.

But the kind of takeoff and landing behavior you’ve described is not only inaccurate but unacceptable.

Okay, well I’m gonna have to wait for consistently good feedback on the physics before I’m willing to jump on it.

OTOH/Food for Thought: the couple who own the IRL Starhawk are literal rocket scientists for NASA, and have been deeply involved in the development of this addon.

I’d be shocked if they approved such poor physics, so I’m hoping there’s some issue with deployment or some such.

Please, please, please don't not buy the addon based purely on my feedback of this very early release.

FSW are one of my favourite devs and their Sierra C24R is one of my all time favourite GA aircraft. I'd recommend watching as many YT vids of the Legacy as you can find. Look at the take off and see what you think. I've never seen a remotely 'clean' take off in it yet. But I want FSW to succeed with this addon, as we need more high quality GA in the sim 😎 I do have faith they will tweak the drag modelling and fix this. 👍🏽

It's definitely a beta release at a high price but I trust this developer to fine tune things to their usual standard . In that regard I'm already on my second version ; changes are coming fast with their installer making it easy to keep up to date

It's early days and I'm interested to see how it develops ; their Sierra C24R was another dull aeroplane that turned into a gem.

I Take off is just odd. It's supposed to rotate at 80kts, but with full power, some nose-up trim and one of two notches of flaps, if you attempt to rotate at 80, nothing happens. It builds up more speed but feels very reluctant to break from the ground. Then all of a sudden - BAM! .

I know nothing about Legacy, but that is pretty much how it fell when I first flew Seminole . Some aircraft especially with more powerful engines actually don't have that smooth rotation like in PA180 or C172.

Those aren’t GA ;)

I don’t fly airliners anywhere near as much to have formed a similar opinion

(Though my limited experience of the 146 and RJ would put those in the exceptional category)

Yes, which is exactly why I’ve chosen them as examples.

Especially since they’re both so highly regarded.

A key justification given for the high price of these addons is that they come with multiple variants and options.

But the key point is that the included variants are really just window dressing. They’ve no effect on the baseline quality of the addon itself (and this is especially true in the case of the BAe 146).

Yet they command a higher price simply because they’re included.

As evidence in contrast, look at the relatively low price of the base Fenix. No variants: lower price than PMDG. Lower even than the 146.

So we can extend that and conclude that adding variants with REAL performance and technical differences - as in the case of the FSW - does indeed confer a legitimately higher value.

A2A puts everything they’ve got into a single variant of each aircraft, like Fenix does

FSW, in contrast, is taking the same route as Just Flight: more options for a less technically accurate addon to reach the same sales price.

IOW, if it’s legit for JF (and PMDG) to do it, then let’s not disparage another well regarded dev for doing the very same thing.

And p.s., I think less than 24hrs have elapsed since FSW’s Beta release with the noted issues. And IIRC, it took Fenix quite some time to get their house in order, too.

Please, please, please don't not buy the addon based purely on my feedback of this very early release.

FSW are one of my favourite devs and their Sierra C24R is one of my all time favourite GA aircraft. I'd recommend watching as many YT vids of the Legacy as you can find. Look at the take off and see what you think. I've never seen a remotely 'clean' take off in it yet. But I want FSW to succeed with this addon, as we need more high quality GA in the sim 😎 I do have faith they will tweak the drag modelling and fix this. 👍🏽

Oh, for sure! Like I said, I’ve been very satisfied with their Lear, especially so with the recent v2 re-build.

So I’m keeping an open mind on this one, and I’m optimistic that these Day 1 issues will be ironed out.

The thing is that I’m seeing behavior in videos that’s consistent with your hands on perspective: a whole lotta twitchiness on the ground and in the air.

And since handling/physics is my primary interest, especially in this class of aircraft, I’m wary of diving in.

E.g., I couldn’t care less about some errors in the autopilot and the radios. But if the addon doesn’t handle well…? It’s a hard pass until it does.

Hopefully this is an undercooked steak that came off the grill too early. I’ll let them throw it back on for a little while longer to finish it up properly.

Oh, for sure! Like I said, I’ve been very satisfied with their Lear, especially so with the recent v2 re-build.

So I’m keeping an open mind on this one, and I’m optimistic that these Day 1 issues will be ironed out.

The thing is that I’m seeing behavior in videos that’s consistent with your hands on perspective: a whole lotta twitchiness on the ground and in the air.

And since handling/physics is my primary interest, especially in this class of aircraft, I’m wary of diving in.

E.g., I couldn’t care less about some errors in the autopilot and the radios. But if the addon doesn’t handle well…? It’s a hard pass until it does.

Hopefully this is an undercooked steak that came off the grill too early. I’ll let them throw it back on for a little while longer to finish it up properly.

I think it handles excellent... So you have one irl pilot, me, saying it does, and one irl pilot who says it doesn't. I think that's perfectly ok because we all have different controllers, different curves (mine are basically default except some small deadzones), and we've both flown different airframes irl. JYW is someone I respect very much - he's always had helpful posts here and he's got way more experience with LSAs. This plane reminds me of the Milviz C310....it's not going to fly like a C172.... If you got too slow in the c310 it would drop like brick as well. Also free castoring nose wheel physics done by asobo aren't the best imo. However I noticed FSW did a version with steering now so it may be easier to handle on the ground if one doesn't have nice pedals.

Edited May 17May 17 by ryanbatc

I think it handles excellent... So you have one irl pilot, me, saying it does, and one irl pilot who says it doesn't. I think that's perfectly ok because we all have different controllers, different curves (mine are basically default except some small deadzones), and we've both flown different airframes irl. JYW is someone I respect very much - he's always had helpful posts here and he's got way more experience with LSAs. This plane reminds me of the Milviz C310....it's not going to fly like a C172.... If you got too slow in the c310 it would drop like brick as well. Also free castoring nose wheel physics done by asobo aren't the best imo. However I noticed FSW did a version with steering now so it may be easier to handle on the ground if one doesn't have nice pedals.

Yep - and I’m still on the fence about it right now.

This is kinda reminding me of the recent debates I had in re the Kodiak upgrade. I don’t have any problem with handling it, other guys claim it falls out of the sky when flown on the numbers. In fact I really like the way it handles, and the more I fly it, it’s proving quite easy to fly by the book while providing a lively flight model.

Like you said, probably has to do with the HOTAS and such just as much as the “nut behind the wheel” 😁