Ok, so this is a thread that was started by someone who read the EULA and didn't like what they saw... hoping it was in error.That's the original topic. If you're here to argue that there is no charge, the problem is that the web site itself disagrees with your stance.So, I'd say that if you don't like people having a problem with the EULA, which this thread is actually about... perhaps you're the one who shouldn't be posting in here? :(

Ok, so this is a thread that was started by someone who read the EULA and didn't like what they saw... hoping it was in error.That's the original topic. If you're here to argue that there is no charge, the problem is that the web site itself disagrees with your stance.So, I'd say that if you don't like people having a problem with the EULA, which this thread is actually about... perhaps you're the one who shouldn't be posting in here? :(

You need to re-read how this thread was started. It was not started because someone read a EULA. It was started because someone asked if Ariane charged for re-activation and if so did that mean they would charge him if he upgraded the computer.This thread has nothing to do with EULAs.

So, I'd say that if you don't like people having a problem with the EULA, which this thread is actually about... perhaps you're the one who shouldn't be posting in here?

So I would say that if you want to start a thread about EULAs, go ahead because this is not the one. A thread about EULAs would be pretty boring though, because all software has practically the same EULA.

If you're here to argue that there is no charge, the problem is that the web site itself disagrees with your stance.

Your wrong again. The website gives Ariane the option to charge if they feel that there is an abuse, it does not require them to charge. I know for a fact that their normal policy is not to charge for re-activation. I have reactivated my products several times without any mention of a charge. Many other Ariane customers have also reactivated without any charges or problems. The only ones that are even saying that Ariane charges for reactivation are the ones who never owned any of Ariane's products. :(

I will first admit I have only read the original post and a couple of the replies before I noticed the insane amount of replies here, so i apologize if this sounds like I am repeating any aforementioned answers but, I am replying to the original poster in any case:Ariane does NOT charge for reactivation. They ONLY charge if you lose your order info (which is very common sense to back up ANYTHING you order receipt-wise, FS related or not) and they have to go track it down for you. As long as you have your receipt and order ID, you will never pay a dime to reactivate. If you did, I'd be broke by now due to how many times I have to reinstall FSX from doing product reviews.Hope that helps clear that question up. I am not commenting on anything else mentioned in this thread because it wasn't the original poster's query :-)

I don't dislike people having a problem with the EULA, I don't have any feelings about that one way or the other. As I've written on numerous occasions throughout this thread, if anyone does not like the EULA, then not buying the product is a wise choice - go on, check it if you like, that's what I wrote.So what I'm saying (for the nth time) is that if anyone does decide not to buy the product because they don't like the EULA, then why bang on about the matter when it is not something that is going to affect them? For at best it is ill conceived, and at worst is nothing more than stirring trouble for the sake of it, and even a blind man could see that.If there is someone here who has bought something from Ariane and cannot activate it or feel they are being unfairly charged, then I'll happily discuss that with them, because that is indeed a serious issue and does warrant discussion. And since I have at least some contact with the people at Ariane by virtue of the fact that I queried them a lot when researching stuff for the review I did for AVSIM of their product, then I might be in a position to unjam things and help them get it activated, or at least figure out what might be wrong, since I too have had issues, having bought two Ariane products and know how to resolve them. I can't say that I could help for certain, but I would think there is a good chance. Would you rather me not be here and not try to help someone in that position if I possibly could?Over and above that, I'm trying to put a stop to the rehashing of tired misconceptions and clarify things, which you may recall, was why I took it upon myself to buy that FSX 737 from Ariane, and find out about it, and then propose it was reviewed, and then research the 737 NG at my own expense to see how realistic the Ariane one was, and then contact several NG pilots for their input, and then write the review, and then suggest changes to Ariane, and then have them happen, and then buy another Ariane product from a different web source to see if that threw up problems, and then suggest other changes, and then try and clarify points, and then report the concerns of people on this thread to Ariane, and then report back that changes were happening, and then suggest other changes, and then offer to help people in the interim if they had problems.So, of the two sorts on this thread, whom do you think is doing more to help the situation? Me, or the ones complaining about issues they're not having with a product they don't possess?Al

A SUMMARY AND A CHALLENGE.......This thread started as a legitimate question about reactivation charges and the confusion surrounding them, and has 'mutated' into areas such as EULA's, the law governing distance selling, the usual 'pro v. anti Ariane', and the legitimacy of posting an opinion whether you're an actual Ariane customer, a past Ariane customer, or a potential Ariane customer.Threads/discussions like these often develop away from the simple questions which start them - that's the nature of these forums and in many cases, what makes threads like this so interesting. Why else have so many contributed and even more have read or followed it....?However, threads about Ariane seem almost unique in the way they develop or deteriorate and I have a theory as to why. In a nutshell, (IMHO), it's simply because since Ariane started, it has never really changed and because of where it came from in the first place, the 'community' has never been given any indication that 'the leopard has changed it's spots'. Put simply, many don't trust Ariane and/or are highly suspicious.As such, at it's root-level, comments about the company and it's practices which may well have started nearly a decade ago are indeed still relevant today and should, if only for the benefit of 'newbies', still be open to discussion on these forums.Sure, Ariane has evolved over the years, and indeed have some good products (see Al's review and customer comments about the planes), and I am in no way advocating that Ariane should be 'boycotted' or 'taken out'. I've said before, and I repeat here - if you like the planes and are happy with Ariane, it's pricing, it's support and it's business ethics, 'good for you'.However, what continues to rile me is that I believe that this community continues to be duped and 'laughed at' by those running Ariane and any company that 'hides' the way Ariane does must surely have something (or more especially, someone) to hide. For example, it's been widely suggested over the years that 'Ed', 'India Knight', 'Bob Hale' etc. are ficticious characters and that PT's still 'running' Ariane, given the same old infomercial-style on their site and poor and personally insulting customer support so widely reported on these forums.AVSIM has even offered Ariane a free support forum which Ariane has shyed away from.Why? Why all the 'cloak & dagger' existence? Why the unpublished trading address and no contact numbers (apart from the Registered Office), why all the missed opportunities to come onto these forums and 'clear the air' by being open and honest, once and for all? So here's the challenge..... Al, you're a very respected reviewer and your stance through these discussions has been nothing but balanced and fair. As you're also based in the UK, why not go to Ariane yourself, physically meet whovever's there, physically look at Bob Hale and India Knight's passports to verify their true identity, and basically do a new review - not of the product, but of the company itself. I'll happily accompany you if you like, and be the first to launch a massive public apology to Ariane if all my theories prove to be unfounded.If 'Mohammed won't come to the Mountain', maybe it's time for 'the Mountain to go to Mohammed' and finally put all these conspiracy theories about Ariane (or othewise) to permanent rest.At it's very root level, I suggest that's the only way Ariane will ever regain the trust of the community at large and be judged more by it's products than by it's 'issues'.Toni.

Toni,I agree with 90% of your analyze.But saying "physically look at Bob Hale and India Knight's passports to verify their true identity" is absolutly unwise and out of all proportion.I've exchanged a few emails with one of the Ariane's guys about their company's bad reputation.He was very polite and rather friendly.I've invited him to join the forum and to answer directly to the legitimate critics.AFAIK we never saw him.Communication doesn't seem to be their priority.

I know for a fact that their normal policy is not to charge for re-activation.

Its policy is to charge

Toni,I agree with 90% of your analyze.But saying "physically look at Bob Hale and India Knight's passports to verify their true identity" is absolutly unwise and out of all proportion.I've exchanged a few emails with one of the Ariane's guys about their company's bad reputation.He was very polite and rather friendly.I've invited him to join the forum and to answer directly to the legitimate critics.AFAIK we never saw him.Communication doesn't seem to be their priority.

DavidBetter than emails, I've actually spoken to one of the 'directors' of Ariane at length - the guy who told me that he's bought the company.During the conversation, I asked him directly about the identity (or otherwise) of 'Bob Hale' - I told him that I actually know the person who invented the name when Ariane was originally set up as a way of shielding PT's true identity, and said what a coincidence it is that he's managed to find a 'new' guy who is now associated with Ariane with just that same name..... His total silence gave the answer.I also asked him that if PT truly has nothing to do with Ariane anymore and he's bought the company and wants to 'relaunch' it, why not 'declare it to the world' to truly give it the chance it needs to finally stop all the bad publicity? Again, total and embarrassing silence.This isn't rocket science. For nearly a decade, Ariane has fought the negative threads and reports levelled against it, and still maintains it's clandestine approach. If you were in that directors shoes, wouldn't rebuilding the reputation and clearing the air be the very first thing you'd want to do to 'give your new business a chance'?Maybe looking at passports is 'over the top' but do you know a better way to really identify someone you've never met before?Ariane DOES have a presence on these forums, but only, it seems, by hiding behind others (and I don't mean Al....)Toni.

DavidBetter than emails, I've actually spoken to one of the 'directors' of Ariane at length - the guy who told me that he's bought the company.During the conversation, I asked him directly about the identity (or otherwise) of 'Bob Hale' - I told him that I actually know the person who invented the name when Ariane was originally set up as a way of shielding PT's true identity, and said what a coincidence it is that he's managed to find a 'new' guy who is now associated with Ariane with just that same name..... His total silence gave the answer.I also asked him that if PT truly has nothing to do with Ariane anymore and he's bought the company and wants to 'relaunch' it, why not 'declare it to the world' to truly give it the chance it needs to finally stop all the bad publicity? Again, total and embarrassing silence.This isn't rocket science. For nearly a decade, Ariane has fought the negative threads and reports levelled against it, and still maintains it's clandestine approach. If you were in that directors shoes, wouldn't rebuilding the reputation and clearing the air be the very first thing you'd want to do to 'give your new business a chance'?Maybe looking at passports is 'over the top' but do you know a better way to really identify someone you've never met before?Ariane DOES have a presence on these forums, but only, it seems, by hiding behind others (and I don't mean Al....)Toni.

I attach two interesting links. The first is from 2002 and the second from 2009.http://www.avsim.com/pages/0902/pt_again.htmlhttp://www.arianedesign.com/Content.do?sta...tent=news/projxAs you say, what a remarkable coincidence that Bob Hale is mentioned in both of them.

It's an interesting notion, but it really is not up to me to travel to Ariane and verify identities like some roving Blade Runner, in spite of the Bradbury name. I'm a simple forum member like yourself who writes the odd review, and certainly not a detective, even if I did used to do a bit of investigative journalism in a former life. And to be honest, I wouldn't know a fake ID from a real one if it was waved two inches under my nose. Although oddly enough, I did actually train a lot of the UK's people whose job it is to do that sort of thing on how to use Photoshop and InDesign, as they apparently scan fake ones and use them as examples of what and what not to look out for in documents they create and circulate to port authorities. However, on that occasion, I was more concerned with teaching them how to use stuff, than I was with them teaching me the tricks of their trade LOLIf Ariane wanted to invite me to Ariane Mews, or wherever they are, I admit I'd probably go out of curiosity, as much as probably anyone else would, but I really don't see that it would achieve very much if I did so. I once went to Russia, it was in 1979, when it was still a communist country and was right at the peak of the Cold War, with many countries boycotting the then forthcoming Olympics which were to be held the following year in Moscow. Now I can tell you Moscow is a beautiful city, and I had a good look around it, but I have absolutely no doubt that I was steered away from the crappy aspects of communist Russia by our 'tour guide', who was almost certainly some sort of KGB-type person. That is not to suggest that Ariane would attempt to pull the wool over a visitor's eyes - I don't know that - but I do know that if they did want to do so, then it would be as easy as it was for that Russian tour guide all those years ago, and then you'd have me coming away saying how lovely they were, which they may indeed be for all I know, but you nevertheless take the point.As far as online identities go, it's certainly not always as sinister as people suspect when people use other ones online; one look on these forums, or any other forum for that matter, will confirm people don't always like their names on full view, and there can be many reasons for that. It's true that a company should endeavor to be transparent as is can of course, but where most things are concerned, I call them as I see them unless there is a particular reason to do otherwise, and in the case of Ariane, they've never really done anything to me that would make me regard them as shady. I've bought a couple of 'toy aeroplanes' off them, they work as advertised and I'm happy with that, so I feel no need to march upon Ariane Towers and demand openness. If anything it would be me who forced things upon them, by reviewing their product when they had chosen not to send a sample of it to AVSIM. But I do like to think that was for the right reasons.One thing I do know though, is that they are apparently viewing this thread with interest, and it seems hard to imagine that if appearing more open would garner more sales, that they would not be interested in trying to do so. After all, even the people with little respect for Ariane would concede that they are interested in making money, and it seems to me that they'd make more if such a change were forthcoming.It seems there may indeed some pseudonyms too, but then again, my name isn't Chock.Al

It's an interesting notion, but it really is not up to me to travel to Ariane and verify identities like some roving Blade Runner, in spite of the Bradbury name. I'm a simple forum member like yourself who writes the odd review, and certainly not a detective, even if I did used to do a bit of investigative journalism in a former life. And to be honest, I wouldn't know a fake ID from a real one if it was waved two inches under my nose. Although oddly enough, I did actually train a lot of the UK's people whose job it is to do that sort of thing on how to use Photoshop and InDesign, as they apparently scan fake ones and use them as examples of what and what not to look out for in documents they create and circulate to port authorities. However, on that occasion, I was more concerned with teaching them how to use stuff, than I was with them teaching me the tricks of their trade LOLIf Ariane wanted to invite me to Ariane Mews, or wherever they are, I admit I'd probably go out of curiosity, as much as probably anyone else would, but I really don't see that it would achieve very much if I did so. I once went to Russia, it was in 1979, when it was still a communist country and was right at the peak of the Cold War, with many countries boycotting the then forthcoming Olympics which were to be held the following year in Moscow. Now I can tell you Moscow is a beautiful city, and I had a good look around it, but I have absolutely no doubt that I was steered away from the crappy aspects of communist Russia by our 'tour guide', who was almost certainly some sort of KGB-type person. That is not to suggest that Ariane would attempt to pull the wool over a visitor's eyes - I don't know that - but I do know that if they did want to do so, then it would be as easy as it was for that Russian tour guide all those years ago, and then you'd have me coming away saying how lovely they were, which they may indeed be for all I know, but you nevertheless take the point.As far as online identities go, it's certainly not always as sinister as people suspect when people use other ones online; one look on these forums, or any other forum for that matter, will confirm people don't always like their names on full view, and there can be many reasons for that. It's true that a company should endeavor to be transparent as is can of course, but where most things are concerned, I call them as I see them unless there is a particular reason to do otherwise, and in the case of Ariane, they've never really done anything to me that would make me regard them as shady. I've bought a couple of 'toy aeroplanes' off them, they work as advertised and I'm happy with that, so I feel no need to march upon Ariane Towers and demand openness. If anything it would be me who forced things upon them, by reviewing their product when they had chosen not to send a sample of it to AVSIM. But I do like to think that was for the right reasons.One thing I do know though, is that they are apparently viewing this thread with interest, and it seems hard to imagine that if appearing more open would garner more sales, that they would not be interested in trying to do so. After all, even the people with little respect for Ariane would concede that they are interested in making money, and it seems to me that they'd make more if such a change were forthcoming.It seems there may indeed some pseudonyms too, but then again, my name isn't Chock.Al

The offical register of UK companies (Companies House) http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/ provides publically available information about companies registered in the UK. Click on WebCheck and then enter the company name.A search finds a company called Ariane Design Flight Simulation Limited with a Registered Office at:River House6 Firs PathLeighton BuzzardBedfordshireLU7 3JGCompany No. 04363467.Its Country of Origin is the United Kingdom and and the Nature of Business is software publishing.By registering with Companies House (which is free) it's possible to download further information at

The offical register of UK companies (Companies House) http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/ provides publically available information about companies registered in the UK. Click on WebCheck and then enter the company name.A search finds a company called Ariane Design Flight Simulation Limited with a Registered Office at:River House6 Firs PathLeighton BuzzardBedfordshireLU7 3JGCompany No. 04363467.Its Country of Origin is the United Kingdom and and the Nature of Business is software publishing.By registering with Companies House (which is free) it's possible to download further information at

I'm contacting Homeland Security. Pseudonyms, flight sims... something is getting very creepy about this. And if they really are based in the U.K. (silly me, I thought English must have been a second language after reading their website) the next thing we know, it will be 1814 all over again and the redcoats will be burning everyone alive in churches and the White House, and Mad Max will have to save us.If Billy Mays joins India Knight as a spokesman, we can accuse Ariane of necromancy, too. And there is absolutely nothing odd whatsoever about sending Al undercover for a lineup. (As an expert in the Reid method of interrogation, though, I would probably be a better choice -- no offense, Al -- so I'll be waiting for my plane ticket and expenses in the mail.)I raised four kids. Every one of them knew explicity that daddy reserved the option to spank their butts. (I can safely say this now that they are too old for DCFS to come and take them away, and the statute of limitations for domestic battery has run.) However that does not mean it was my policy. In fact, I can count on one hand with fingers left over the number of times I spanked any of my kids. Non-spanking was my policy in fact, even though I reserved the option to spank.Did I get a nice airplane from Airiane? Yes. Do I have reason to entertain doubts that Ariane would reactivate my airplane if my computer broke? No. Is their website a bad joke? Yes. Is Peter Tishma reading this very post right now and laughing maniacally at me? Seriously, do people really get bothered by imagining this stuff? Anyway, at least what this is all about is out in the open finally. Ariane could change their activation policy tonight and it wouldn't make any difference.

I'm contacting Homeland Security. Pseudonyms, flight sims... something is getting very creepy about this. And if they really are based in the U.K. (silly me, I thought English must have been a second language after reading their website) the next thing we know, it will be 1814 all over again and the redcoats will be burning everyone alive in churches and the White House and Mad Max will have to save us.If Billy Mays joins India Knight as a spokesman, we can accuse Ariane of necromancy, too. And there is absolutely nothing odd whatsoever about sending Al undercover for a lineup. (As an expert in the Reid method of interrogation, though, I would probably be a better choice -- no offense, Al -- so I'll be waiting for my plane ticket and expenses in the mail.)I raised four kids. Every one of them knew explicity that daddy reserved the option to spank their butts. (I can safely say this now that they are too old for DCFS to come and take them away, and the statute of limitations for domestic battery has run.) However that does not mean it was my policy. In fact, I can count on one hand with fingers left over the number of times I spanked any of my kids. Non-spanking was my policy in fact, even though I reserved the option to spank.Did I get a nice airplane from Airiane? Yes. Do I have reason to entertain doubts that Ariane would reactivate my airplane if my computer broke? No. Is their website a bad joke? Yes. Is Peter Tishma reading this very post right now and laughing maniacally at me? Seriously, do people really get bothered by imagining this stuff? Anyway, at least what this is all about is out in the open finally. Ariane could change their activation policy tonight and it wouldn't make any difference.

:( :( :( Thanks for the good laugh Tim. That is funny, but so true.This thread is getting totally crazy. Someone on these forums once said "Ariane sounds more like a cult or religion.." and that's because these people that want to look behind the actual great product that Ariane offers, at some extraterrestrial, meta-physical, mystical, fairy-tale, make-believe, scandalous, imaginary, something more that just a software company wanting to make an honest living...I have never in my entire life seen a thread go in such an absolutely ridiculous direction. This is just a company that makes great software that many people enjoy. What is the stinking difference if the owner slaps his wife or kicks his dog! I don't care, I'm just buying the software and flying it is MSFS.Avsim is about flight simulation and we're not talking about flight simulation anymore here. This thread is a few trouble makers trying to dredge up old scandal because it cannot find anything wrong with Ariane's software or support. It is a sorry attempt by people who have no intention of buying or using Ariane software to destroy this fine developer for the many, like myself, who love their products.mgh, If these addresses were correct, you should be ashamed of yourself for posting someones personal information on the internet without their permission. Is this something that you would like for yourself? Would you like to have you wife and children jeopardized by having your personal home address posted openly on the internet for public viewing? Would that help you to sleep better tonight?I don't see you calling yourself by your real name. You're using "mgh" to hide you identity because you don't want your personal information posted and displayed openly on the internet. (mgh's profile: mgh Member - 2,000+, Age Unknown, Gender Not Set, Location Unknown, Birthday Unknown, Interests Unknown).No Information. Yet you are willing to jeopardize someone else and their family.Even if I knew someone's address I sure wouldn't post it openly on the internet, just out of consideration and concern for their safety. If something would happen to them, I would feel completely responsible.Just because that may be publicly accessible information doesn't mean that you have the right to post it openly on a public forum. It serves no purpose whats-so-ever. Property deeds are publicly accessible information, but I don't think everyone would want all of their personal property information and leans posted on a public forum.I believe we should concern ourselves here with our hobby since that is what Avsim is all about, and quit trying to stir up scandal that isn't there. Let's leave that for the tabloids.Bob

Taking the idea of a cult and running with it, for the conspiracy theorists out there, if you rearrange the letters of Neville Francis Caswall Rolt, you can get either...vstol fear will call a sinner or...its evil carnal Roswell flanNot sure what that means, but with a few double Vodkas I'm sure I can come up with something. With no P or M in there, you can't get Peter Tishma though, so that'll have to do. It's not much, but then again, neither was trawling up an argument from years ago either, so you'll just have to go with it.Al