To Tim and Al,Thank you both for keeping such a level head during this whole thread.

LOL I go to work every day and try to make sure accused serial killers and baby murderers get a fair shake and that not too many of them get killed by the enlightened powers of the State of Illinois. I don't think I've ever gotten in nearly so heated discussion about that as when one or two makers of toy airplanes come up. "Yes, I defended that guy Oprah devoted a show to that killed the little boy (shhh, don't tell anyone that I creep downstairs late at night and, and fly airplanes from Ariane and Captain Sim.)" Kind of reminds me of the old joke "I tell my mother I'm a piano player in a whorehouse, because she'd die if she knew I was a lawyer."

PS: The Feelthere support forum is located here: http://forum.iemit.com/

there are actually two feelThere forums ... the above is the current forum 'server'. the old forum 'server' IS STILL UP and all threads can be searched and reviewed. there are even a few sub-forums still open, but not active. you can find feelThere support documentation back to april of 2003. the 'old forum' link -http://iemit.com/forum--

there are actually two feelThere forums ... the above is the current forum 'server'. the old forum 'server' IS STILL UP and all threads can be searched and reviewed. there are even a few sub-forums still open, but not active. you can find feelThere support documentation back to april of 2003. the 'old forum' link -http://iemit.com/forum--

Actually, you're the excellent unofficial support I had in mind, or are you official?

After reading the review of the Ariane 737 I was very tempted until I looked under the Admin section on the Ariane website and read about the Re-activation Ticket for FSX. Am I correct in thinking that if I re-install Windows and FSX the Ariane will charge me

Oh, and Wilco products have some of the best support I've ever seen. Just because it is unofficial doesn't mean it is any less valuable. I could point to some unanswered questions even from the list of Approved Developers, and even one or two rather disrespectful comments, because when all you hear is how great you are, you can start to believe your own buzz.

I also have never had any problem with either Wilco or Feelthere support. They have responded quickly and helpfully to any concern. (I like that Ejet too).Come to think of it, I have never even had much problem with even Captain Sim's support which is so beaten to the ground by many simmers.All of these developers feel an obligation to give good support for their products because they know that they always "own" the product and the consumer only purchases a "license" for the product to use on one computer. They want their product to work for the consumer so he will come back and buy a license for another product.If I go to an electronics store and purchase a DVD player, they could care less if it continues to work or not. They don't own it anymore and their pool of customers is endless.Flight sim developers have a selective pool of customers. It is more important to them to keep every one.I think half the problem is the way that support is approached in all of these cases.Bob

Cheers for that Bob. I know you are what might be regarded as an 'associate' of Ariane rather than an actual employee, in that you are part of the volunteer support group on the semi-official Ariane forum, but given your close contact with the Ariane dudes, then that's pretty much as good as an official word from Ariane in clarifying matters, although I do think they still need to decode their web language a bit to make that equally clear on the site. It essentially does say that, but the language is a bit convoluted.I might have cause to test that theory this weekend too, since I just decided yesterday to reinstall FS9 on a different drive, which means the FS9 Ariane 737-800 will be going in there, but as far as I'm aware, I think my old code will probably work, it being essentially the same computer things are going on, so I will hopefully not be warming up my lynch mob noose LOLWith regard to Wilco, I've had pretty good support from them, and was even able to pass on comments on their Aviation and Mission add-on for the 737 to their development team. I once lost my installation codes for my 737 too, and they took a while, but they got them back for me via a few explanatory emails so they could locate when my purchase was made and thus locate the mail in which my serial numbers were sent. Not bad considering that it was basically my own fault that I lost those codes when a HD crashed.Al

Actually, you're the excellent unofficial support I had in mind, or are you official?

i work with feelThere ... aka 'official'.--

Cheers for that Bob. I know you are what might be regarded as an 'associate' of Ariane rather than an actual employee, in that you are part of the volunteer support group on the semi-official Ariane forum, but given your close contact with the Ariane dudes, then that's pretty much as good as an official word from Ariane in clarifying matters, although I do think they still need to decode their web language a bit to make that equally clear on the site. It essentially does say that, but the language is a bit convoluted.

I go along with that Al. They should be more clear on the policy, but I believe a lot of it is probably just their fear that people would abuse it. They feel that by leaving the wording that way, it leaves their option open to charge if they feel it becomes necessary like if someone wants to reactivate nine times within one month....don't laugh, it happens.Many of these people that complain about reactivating also have lost all of their purchase information, and it takes the Ariane staff a lot of time to try to search through their records to find that info. It is very important to keep all of your purchase information right with the backup files and the .exe files and on a separate harddrive.

I might have cause to test that theory this weekend too, since I just decided yesterday to reinstall FS9 on a different drive, which means the FS9 Ariane 737-800 will be going in there, but as far as I'm aware, I think my old code will probably work, it being essentially the same computer things are going on, so I will hopefully not be warming up my lynch mob noose LOL

You won't have any problem. Like I say, don't send any added explainations, especially not with the activation request. Just activate using the same process you did when you first installed the product. Your activation will be processed just like the first time.Some people use the same "Activation Email" and write an explanation of why they are re-activating, then it gets kicked out because only the activation request code can be in that email.

With regard to Wilco, I've had pretty good support from them, and was even able to pass on comments on their Aviation and Mission add-on for the 737 to their development team. I once lost my installation codes for my 737 too, and they took a while, but they got them back for me via a few explanatory emails so they could locate when my purchase was made and thus locate the mail in which my serial numbers were sent. Not bad considering that it was basically my own fault that I lost those codes when a HD crashed.

With Wilco, you can just go into your "account" and see all of your purchases and codes. They keep them on the website.Of course if you bought them somewhere else that could be a problem.That is why I really like "Simmarket". They have the most organized "Your Account" section of any vendor and allow free re-downloads forever. They even have a "Your Products" search where you can make sure you don't duplicate purchases before buying.Aerosoft is good to, but you have to keep your order number or it gets hard to find a particular purchase if you want to re-download it or get updates.I keep everything I have backed up on a Tbite external harddrive. I still have purchasing info from my first payware.

Actually, I had real problems buying the Ariane FSX 737 via Simmarket, and I have to say that their support could have been a bit better at the time, since they had the wrong documentation in the product zip when I downloaded it. There were lots of automated replies to emails which were ones that really need a look when I got a ticket going.I think they have now sorted that out though to be fair, and I generally do not have any problems with Simmarket, in fact I use them quite a lot of the time even when there may be cheaper places to buy, since the service is typically very good. Definitely one of the better sites to be found and one that I make a point of looking on every week or so, especially since it has 'user reviews' of products, which although you sometimes have to take with a large pinch of salt, can occasionally be helpful. There are one or two rather disparaging ones for Ariane's 737 on there though, and I must say I don't always agree with the conclusions in both those, and a lot of the other user reviews to be found, but, each to their own.Al

Ariane's official position on re-activation is set out in its Terms and Conditions in its own words:With regards to activation, each customer will be provided with one key per product licensed to them. If a customer has purchase at least three base products (these are the main products to operate the aircraft in question and not any other) then we withold the right to issue a new key without charge depending on the requestor or his/her circumstances. The product or product is not sold to the customer for any reason or under any circumstances regarding its transfer (See TRANSFER OF RIGHTS) and the issueance of a key is a matter for support or administration to decide should a new key or new activcation is issued. If a customer is deemed to be a multiple user and on that basis one who regualrly decides to refomat or update hardware on a PC then we withold the right to cover our costs for such a decision and ask for a fee to be paid to cover such repetitive activity. The decision of our Administration Departments or Support Departments to release a key based on a customers history or circumstances is final and binding as part of our terms and a customer hereby agrees to such terms.Assuming Ariane is a UK company - which seems to be acceopted - I suggest that this would be regarded as an unair term under the The UK Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 for the following reasons and would not therefore be binding on the purchaser:1) it is not is expressed in plain, intelligible language2) It does not specify what Ariane's charges for reactivation are and would allow Ariane unfairly to charge whatever it likes.I realise this is academic but, combined with my other points about failure to comply with the EU Distance Selling Regulations, I suggest it may be taken as illustrative of Ariane's attitude towards its customers. After all, Ariane chose to write those Terms and Conditions itself. If it objects to critisism of them it has the option of changing them. As far as I am concered hearsay statements about how Ariane actually behaves are irrelevant as long as it choses to publish such written Terms and Conditions.Incidentally, I have noticed that although Ariane has been defended against claims that it has ignored legislation - on the gounds that we must be fair - the same support was not been given to Simmarket which was similarly accused of ignoring legisation.

Hello Phil,I have been an Ariane customer for over two years. I own almost everything that is made by Ariane Designs. I like the 737 very much and after two years, Ariane is still my favorite developer.I have had to re-installed all of my products which I purchased from Ariane several times because of upgrading my computer during the last two years (trying to get to the point where I could actually run FSX smoothly).Bob

Thanks for stepping in to give that insight, Bob. I think I just happen to be in a position to appreciate how certain options find their way into legalese out of an abundance of caution and probably don't make a hill of beans real difference. As a pretend pilot, I can hardly complain about pretend lawyers though LOL. Seriously, if someone has standing to bring suit against Ariane (i.e. has bought the product and feels cheated) the court systems are available to motivated parties. But the law requires you to have a stake in the outcome. The law also recognizes normal adults' competence to choose whether or not to enter into a contract, unless then nannies have taken over the U.K. when I wasn't looking. Anyone absolutely has a right to examine the language and make their own choice. I'm sure no one remembers by now, but it was me that actually first went to Ariane's website and reported on Ariane's terms way back when in this thread to contribute to intelligent and fact-based choice.The Ariane forum seems a pleasant enough place, too, and if my tunes won't play yet, at least I have had two official responses to try to help me toward a resolution of this no-go item ;-) Anyway, I think it is great that there is real dialogue on this, and if I disagree with some people, I honestly hope I have not been disagreeable, and if so, I apologize. I very much enjoy my 737-800 and hope others will give them a try, too, if it is in their price range. I guess I'll just add that McPhat has done a ton of liveries, too, and Ariane would not be the first to charge for work from those guys (Wilco's Ejet livery package being another example). McPhat could paint a pig and I'd want to fly it and probably pay for it. A nicely-rendered 737-800 so much the better.

Ariane's official position on re-activation is set out in its Terms and Conditions in its own words:With regards to activation, each customer will be provided with one key per product licensed to them. If a customer has purchase at least three base products (these are the main products to operate the aircraft in question and not any other) then we withold the right to issue a new key without charge depending on the requestor or his/her circumstances. The product or product is not sold to the customer for any reason or under any circumstances regarding its transfer (See TRANSFER OF RIGHTS) and the issueance of a key is a matter for support or administration to decide should a new key or new activcation is issued. If a customer is deemed to be a multiple user and on that basis one who regualrly decides to refomat or update hardware on a PC then we withold the right to cover our costs for such a decision and ask for a fee to be paid to cover such repetitive activity. The decision of our Administration Departments or Support Departments to release a key based on a customers history or circumstances is final and binding as part of our terms and a customer hereby agrees to such terms.Assuming Ariane is a UK company - which seems to be acceopted - I suggest that this would be regarded as an unair term under the The UK Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 for the following reasons and would not therefore be binding on the purchaser:1) it is not is expressed in plain, intelligible language2) It does not specify what Ariane's charges for reactivation are and would allow Ariane unfairly to charge whatever it likes.I realise this is academic but, combined with my other points about failure to comply with the EU Distance Selling Regulations, I suggest it may be taken as illustrative of Ariane's attitude towards its customers. After all, Ariane chose to write those Terms and Conditions itself. If it objects to critisism of them it has the option of changing them. As far as I am concered hearsay statements about how Ariane actually behaves are irrelevant as long as it choses to publish such written Terms and Conditions.Incidentally, I have noticed that although Ariane has been defended against claims that it has ignored legislation - on the gounds that we must be fair - the same support was not been given to Simmarket which was similarly accused of ignoring legisation.

HelloHere is a link to the charges to reactivate the softwarehttp://www.arianedesign.com/Store.do?state...amp;category=97But when I reinstalled they did not charge me, I just sent off my email request without any additional explanation and got a reply within 24 hours.Why does this company annoy you so much, If you are not going to purchase their products why get so uptight ?What have they ever done to you, Lets get it out in the open.When you see a thread about Ariane just take a deep breath and skip the threadYou will feel a lot happier.

HelloHere is a link to the charges to reactivate the softwarehttp://www.arianedesign.com/Store.do?state...amp;category=97But when I reinstalled they did not charge me, I just sent off my email request without any additional explanation and got a reply within 24 hours.Why does this company annoy you so much, If you are not going to purchase their products why get so uptight ?What have they ever done to you, Lets get it out in the open.When you see a thread about Ariane just take a deep breath and skip the threadYou will feel a lot happier.

On going through the order process customers have to tick a box confirming that they accept Ariane's Terms and Condition. These are the Terms and Conditions applicable and include the text in my previous post. Ariane is still requiring it cistomers to accept that it can charge what it likes for re-activation. The solution is simple - Ariane can change its Terms andyo any value anytime it choses. You may be prepared to accept such unreasonable conditions - many other aren't.

On going through the order process customers have to tick a box confirming that they accept Ariane's Terms and Condition. These are the Terms and Conditions applicable and include the text in my previous post. Ariane is still requiring it cistomers to accept that it can charge what it likes for re-activation. The solution is simple - Ariane can change its Terms andyo any value anytime it choses. You may be prepared to accept such unreasonable conditions - many other aren't.

HelloAriane is requiring its customers to accept the charges it clearly displays in this linkhttp://www.arianedesign.com/Store.do?state...amp;category=97Which they MAY apply (at their discretion) if they think you are abusing normal reinstall proccess.Now clearly if the Ariane customers in this thread are to be believed, They DO NOT as a general rulecharge for reactivating installs.Why is this so hard for you to accept.I never bother reading any EULA's , just click and install and move onWhats the point, It might be the most perfectly worded legal statement ever written or a total pile of crapIts never going to get to court so why worry.

You may be prepared to accept such unreasonable conditions - many other aren't.

And apparently many are, and round and round we go. We get it, you don't like the EULA. I don't like cricket, so I don't go and watch it, but I also don't go on sport forums and complain about the gate entry fees at cricket matches being unacceptable to me.Al