I found it very informative. It removed the wrong belief that nothing can be done against piracy. The piracy guys might counteract and these guys will counteract too. The universe will remain in equilibrium. To give up should be futile.Thanks Umberto Colapicchioni. Keep us inform of the latest on planet Earth. Every bit counts.Cheers,MAB

I know protecting software is almost impossible but the only legit way I can think of is to make it required to connect over the internet in order to run the program. I am thinking about doing this for a product I

No offense meant... but you're coming across to me as attempting to actually sell your product in this thread. Which isn't really the purpose of the thread.

I was replying to a precise question: if anyone else has similar systems to propose, it would be interesting for everyone to get exposed to different alternatives. I thought this thread was about *doing* something, in practice, and I think it's no use, at this time, to discuss the issue in abstract.

Of coarse people are going to get really annoyed that it's required to have internet access to run the program, but I say welcome to the future... if they download the product from the internet they should have access to the internet , right?

what do you think about this system? Would you approve?

You'll get a lot of complains from users, because there are many problems with this approach:- Many users have internet access at office, but not at home.- Those that have internet access at home, might not have it on the same computer they are using for flying- Some might want to use more than 1 PC, like multiple monitors, networks, etc, with just 1 PC connected- Not all users have always-on internet. Some of them might still be on dial-up and, having to dial each time you run the addon, can be annoying.- Not all users might have flat-fee internet access. Some dial-up plans are charging per hour, with some cents as minimum, each time you log in. Those user will not like being charged by their own ISP, just to verify their purchase.And, of course, don't think that requiring online access, just for verification, is any more safe from hacking. The hacker will just remove your checks, and that's it. So, it doesn't make any difference to check online every time you start flight sim, or to check online only once, then checking again only if the hardware signature changes. A cracker will be able to remove both kind of checks.Don't forget that, you can have all checks you want, but that's just half of work involved in protecting your software. A major part is trying to block the program to be hacked in the first place, which also means trying to make it difficult to analyze. And there are many ways of doing this, from the easy to the difficult, up to the insanely maniac...it's a whole branch of computer science in itself. And of course, it's a continuing cat-and-mouse game, between the developer and the crackers, that are constantly looking for ways to circumvent the measures you have in place to protect the software from hacking, and so on, and on...Continous online verification makes sense ONLY for games that ARE meant to be played online, were they simply wouldn't work without a server component, like a MMORPG. In *that* case, nobody will complain about having to be always online, because that's how the game is played AND, it's quite easy to prevent people with hacked executables from logging in.Something that comes to my mind for a flight sim application, might be an airplane with gauges that store vital informations online ONLY, like databases for example. This might be both an advantage to users ( "your Navdata ALWAYS updated!" ) and make the product unusable without logging in the server. But still, many users might complain about not being able to use the airplane when not connected.Those subscription-based services that creates AI traffic based on real-world informations, are probably the closest thing to an MMORPG, were the product simply wouldn't work without a server (and all users will understand that) so I guess they have basically zero piracy.regards,

I think I'll chime in with my own summary of this thread. Software piracy is a very unfortunate and pititful fact of life. There seems to be a productive effort on the part of software developers to prevent there products from ending up in the hands of those with an unwillingness to abide by legal and moral rules without significantly affecting legal end users. Some sim enthusiasts (sticking with the genre) seem to have an entitlement mentality, whereas others respect the hard work, dedication, money, and time that goes into creating addons. So long as it does not create an unrealistically acceptable inconvenience for paying customers I have to believe that most would be perfectly okay with whatever software protection needs to be in place. Perhaps this could even have a long-term effect of reducing the price of payware, perhaps not.Moving on, I also believe that many of those in the payware addon business will be venturing into the commercial sim market, such as we see in the video of Geof looking cool in the RedBird. Others may just give up the craft all together. I've seen it suggested that strictly freeware may be a good thing, but I disagree. I don't believe that the current form of many exceptional products would be existent as freeware, at least not anywhere near the numbers they are now. Examples include the usual suspects such as the LDS 767, PMDG offerings, one of my personal favorites the Carenado Seneca, and too many others to bother listing here. That is by no means taking a shot at the freeware authors, but simply suggesting that most of the payware products I posess are of there own breed.And finally (you're welcome), I fear that the community is on the wrong path. Remember when we were all using the temporary AVSIM forum not that long ago? Everyone seemed so united around the hobby and came together to support the greatest aviation simulation resource in history. Then we got back to a new AVSIM, but an old mentality. Just imagine how much more of a welcoming environment this would be if we left the personal attacks and unecessary behaviour at the door. How does this relate to my point? I don't know, I didn't even know I had a point. But if I did it would be that I would rather have a friendly, productive relationship between the sim enthusiasts and payware providers than to see members from either side get fed up and hang up there hats. Oh, and I'm still not buying that story that got this whole thread kicked off, but no need to get into detail about that.

Ed, it does not seem to me that Umberto is using his post to do a "bit of marketing". I would prefer to think that he is outlining the fact that his costs are more or less comparable to going rates while adding the security "cherry on top".We are all in this fight together guys and I appreciate everyones input so far. :( As to the return to freeware idea...that is exactly what would happen if commercial devs ceased operation.Consider the fact that at least some devs may throw in the towel on the basis of Work Required VS ROI.If that is true then it is reasonable to assume that NO Freeware Author will donate three years time and uncalculated costs to throw his work out there for free...It follows that quality and realism levels will then decline. :(

You'll get a lot of complains from users, because there are many problems with this approach:- Many users have internet access at office, but not at home.- Those that have internet access at home, might not have it on the same computer they are using for flying- Some might want to use more than 1 PC, like multiple monitors, networks, etc, with just 1 PC connected- Not all users have always-on internet. Some of them might still be on dial-up and, having to dial each time you run the addon, can be annoying.- Not all users might have flat-fee internet access. Some dial-up plans are charging per hour, with some cents as minimum, each time you log in. Those user will not like being charged by their own ISP, just to verify their purchase.

Umberto, you seem very knowledgeable on the subject! You are probably correct in your assumptions - a lot of people would have problems with a protection system like this! I

Joey, what happens when the server goes down? Or gets taken out in a DNS attack? Do you have happy customers? I could spend more time trying to compose some points, but it's meal time and then back to meshing around. But whenever I see threads like this, spelling out the losses related to piracy, the problems that developers have sustaining their business, along with many other ideas brought forth, I naively believe that the best cure or course of action for any business and especially for the Flight Simulator community is a happy customer. That's all it takes, IMO. Make the paying customers happy. Then they'll spread the word, post the screenies, drum up support help. Way too often as of late, I've seen so many situations where developers have missed an opportunity to make a customer happy. Then the developers wonder why sales dry up?Please, no flames from the payware portion of the crowd. I'll be here all week...

Joey, what happens when the server goes down? Or gets taken out in a DNS attack? Do you have happy customers? I could spend more time trying to compose some points, but it's meal time and then back to meshing around. But whenever I see threads like this, spelling out the losses related to piracy, the problems that developers have sustaining their business, along with many other ideas brought forth, I naively believe that the best cure or course of action for any business and especially for the Flight Simulator community is a happy customer. That's all it takes, IMO. Make the paying customers happy. Then they'll spread the word, post the screenies, drum up support help. Way too often as of late, I've seen so many situations where developers have missed an opportunity to make a customer happy. Then the developers wonder why sales dry up?Please, no flames from the payware portion of the crowd. I'll be here all week...

Sorry, that logic doesn't work. We have a ton af happy customers and still see piracy....Satisfied customers do not prevent piracy. Proactive actions to render products unusable in the event of hack attempt do have an effect on piracy :(

Sorry, that logic doesn't work. We have a ton af happy customers and still see piracy....Satisfied customers do not prevent piracy. Proactive actions to render products unusable in the event of hack attempt do have an effect on piracy :(

I am very happy about a certain car I bought a year ago-in fact I have raved to many people about it.If I leave it parked in Detroit in a "secure" lot for the night it won't be there the next day..(I made that mistake once many years ago-and it was missing in the morning).So I tend to agree with Ron, though Meshman-I think a good product ups the odds a little in the developers favor in that fan's raves may encourage some to purchase the product.....but the thieves are thieves....

I am very happy about a certain car I bought a year ago-in fact I have raved to many people about it.If I leave it parked in Detroit in a "secure" lot for the night it won't be there the next day..(I made that mistake once many years ago-and it was missing in the morning).So I tend to agree with Ron, though Meshman-I think a good product ups the odds a little in the developers favor in that fan's raves may encourage some to purchase the product.....but the thieves are thieves....

Those Ford Pintos are a hot item Geof :(

Only when rear-ended. :(

Those Ford Pintos are a hot item Geof :(

You are not kidding! Actually my first stolen car was a 7 year old Suburu with rust and 120,000 miles.The theives don't care about quality. I learned you just don't deal with theives....I was a student pilot at the time 1989 and my David Clarks were in the trunk. They were gone too when we found the car missing a battery, a broken window and my David Clarks.. I still get a kick out of thinking of the astonishment when they tried to plug them into a stereo system..

I know protecting software is almost impossible but the only legit way I can think of is to make it required to connect over the internet in order to run the program. I am thinking about doing this for a product I

Hello,Regards.Gus.