Mike, with all due respect you do tend to wander of topic then request a new thread on same or similar topics where you wander again... :( This topic is not anyones personal thread but it is here to benefit/enlighten the community at large.This thread took this direction from a previous thread that had run its course.What is most interesting is that the generalties, meanderings, personal opinions, and assumptions are being kept to a minimum by Jeremy and Geof. :(

Mike, with all due respect you do tend to wander of topic then request a new thread on same or similar topics where you wander again... :( This topic is not anyones personal thread but it is here to benefit/enlighten the community at large.This thread took this direction from a previous thread that had run its course.What is most interesting is that the generalties, meanderings, personal opinions, and assumptions are being kept to a minimum by Jeremy and Geof. :(

I'm glad you brought that up Ron. Thanks to Geof's confidence in me (for what reason I honestly do not know), Tom granted me the privelege of moderating. I sought this duty to do my part to bring sanity, rational debate, common sense, and respect back to the forums. Sadly I had to lock a thread today, and I assure you (as my fellow Baron driver can attest to) that I most certainly did not want to. The idea is to get these debates out into the open in a responsible way. I invite all developers and sim enthusiasts into any thread I'm moderating, which is many at a time, to share ideas, discuss differences, and work out issues in a manner that reflects well on all sides. I personally know a few developers leaving the business in large part because of the way they are treated by some in the community, and I know a few in the community who have called it quits for the same reason. That doesn't end here, but it does end on my watch. If immature posters wish to disrupt and otherwise productive thread, they will be dealt with as applicable. I do not want to lose anymore developers or fellow enthusiasts. Let's all work together to get this hobby back where it belongs.

I didn't have the time to read the whole thread but I just wanted to mention what my take is on this issue. I am against pirates and anyone who justifies their actions. This user in Post #9 mentioned that because of greed the price of the add ons are too high and thus the high rate of piracy. I gotta say I completely disagree with this. Lets say a team of 6 people spend one year on developing a high quality add on and they roll it out for $50 US DOLLARS. Considering that these guys got families to feed and bills to pay, what do you think a better and "less greedy" price tag would be for this add on? I don't know about you but I find it a very very fair price*. You gotta take into account that these FS ADDON companies are not multi-million dollar corporations. I mean imagine this for a second. You get together a group of people and start working on a project. Your team consists of a 3D designer, Gauge Developer, CEO, Painter, Dynamics Developer, Sound Editor, Technical Advisor, and technical support. After 3 to 4 years of development, the day arrives. Everyone on the team is excited to see what the public thinks of their new plane. You release the product. And a week later, you find torrents all over web offering the product you worked so hard on for free. Seriously, how the hell would feel? I don't think you would feel too good about it, would you?This is the same deal. It's seriously not that hard to understand why piracy is just not right. *I gotta add, I am not rich. As a matter of fact, I am unemployed right now and attending college. As you might imagine, I don't have every add on because I can't afford it. I just save up and pick and choose according to my taste.EDIT: My post is NOT pointed at anyone in particular.

I think it might be a good idea to let this topic cool for a little while. Maybe you can take your time to put together those figures, which I'm looking very forward to by the way, and then start a thread on that. This horse has been beaten to glue. I will say that I am very pleased and greatful that this thread has not turned into personal assaults and disrespect like this topic usually invites. Take your time, I'm wanting you to give me a good education on this one.

Nah, I'll just summarize again and then allow the thread to do whatever it's going to do. Here's the revised summary ...Pirates deprive developers of half the revenue that should come to them. As a result some developers are forced to go out of business.See 'ya.

Hmmm.. so much here to comment on - a truly interesting thread :)Umberto - I think you have got it in one with your system. Very unintrusive to the legitimate owner (I don't need to jump through endless activation requests, wait for the developer/publishers to get back to me at their convenience, question my legitimacy as a customer), but evidently showing a degree of success in combating the real problem you have of torrented copies. As a consumer, I am happy with that. And as a developer, you are probably happier too, I would guess :)It's refreshing to see a content owner looking at out of the box solutions like this than the hammer ==> nut approach; it's not worked with TPB (they still operate, and even when they shut - if they shut - there will be others more than ready to spring up to take its place). Litigation is not going to win this fight, regardless of what the RIAA, for example would like us to believe. As I have said before, trying to stop filesharing through the courts it like trying to stop a tsunami with a cocktail umbrella.Mike, your comments on ISP's taking their share of ownership of the piracy problem: IMO, it's not entirely fair to expect them, as carriers to shoulder this responsibility. Seeing it a slightly different way: that same torrented FS software that you can download through your ISPs service is instead put on a CD (by example torrent site) and sent to you via snail mail (at your request). Shouldn't the PO carry the burden of then checking that package and its contents? You're still getting the pirated content, it's only the medium of delivery that's changed. An ISP is no different to a postal service in this sense - it provides a service of delivery. Its job shouldn't be policing that service. That is what law enforcement is there for.

Hmmm.. so much here to comment on - a truly interesting thread :)Umberto - I think you have got it in one with your system. Very unintrusive to the legitimate owner (I don't need to jump through endless activation requests, wait for the developer/publishers to get back to me at their convenience, question my legitimacy as a customer), but evidently showing a degree of success in combating the real problem you have of torrented copies. As a consumer, I am happy with that. And as a developer, you are probably happier too, I would guess :)It's refreshing to see a content owner looking at out of the box solutions like this than the hammer ==> nut approach; it's not worked with TPB (they still operate, and even when they shut - if they shut - there will be others more than ready to spring up to take its place). Litigation is not going to win this fight, regardless of what the RIAA, for example would like us to believe. As I have said before, trying to stop filesharing through the courts it like trying to stop a tsunami with a cocktail umbrella.Mike, your comments on ISP's taking their share of ownership of the piracy problem: IMO, it's not entirely fair to expect them, as carriers to shoulder this responsibility. Seeing it a slightly different way: that same torrented FS software that you can download through your ISPs service is instead put on a CD (by example torrent site) and sent to you via snail mail (at your request). Shouldn't the PO carry the burden of then checking that package and its contents? You're still getting the pirated content, it's only the medium of delivery that's changed. An ISP is no different to a postal service in this sense - it provides a service of delivery. Its job shouldn't be policing that service. That is what law enforcement is there for.

Hi Leo,If you check a few posts down from the one of mine you're referring to you'll see that Umberto made a convert out of me, too. As I said in that post, I have no particular desire to do battle with the ISPs.

Here's my quick summary of this thread:- Pirates deprive developers of money.- Developers can't rely on litigation, ISP's or governments to solve this.- Developers need to beef up their copy protection systems. As Umberto says, most of the sales are in the first few months after a product is released so if you can delay the time a cracked copy appears you will increase your sales.And now for my personal opinion. There's a nice little market that's just waiting to be filled by someone with experience in developing software copy protection systems and then licensing them to FS addon developers.

Hi Leo,If you check a few posts down from the one of mine you're referring to you'll see that Umberto made a convert out of me, too. As I said in that post, I have no particular desire to do battle with the ISPs.

Crossed wires, Mike - I did read that, I was making a two pronged post :)

Here's my quick summary of this thread:- Pirates deprive developers of money.- Developers can't rely on litigation, ISP's or governments to solve this.- Developers need to beef up their copy protection systems. As Umberto says, most of the sales are in the first few months after a product is released so if you can delay the time a cracked copy appears you will increase your sales.And now for my personal opinion. There's a nice little market that's just waiting to be filled by someone with experience in developing software copy protection systems and then licensing them to FS addon developers.

Precisely! Disregarding the "nice little market" point for the moment...consider that there is currently no "one size fits all" solution.Umbertos solution may not fit Eaglesoft for example but we commend his efforts for their effectiveness!What is most interesting is to see FS Developers beginning to be a bit more public and proactive about a number of techniques aimed at effective solutions... :(

I'll tell you what FS2Crew's solution is for our upcoming product line...We simply rolled our own copy protection system. In our view rolling your own is by far the best way as "custom" copy protection systems are often the hardest to crack because they're totally unique.While no system is 100 percent perfect, it would take a very dedicated hacker to beat our new system.And usually guys at that level aren't interested wasting their time with some small-time FS indie developer like FS2Crew.Those guys usually go for the big fish... EA Games, Activision, Eaglesoft :(

I'll tell you what FS2Crew's solution is for our upcoming product line...We simply rolled our own copy protection system. In our view rolling your own is by far the best way as "custom" copy protection systems are often the hardest to crack because they're totally unique.While no system is 100 percent perfect, it would take a very dedicated hacker to beat our new system.And usually guys at that level aren't interested wasting their time with some small-time FS indie developer like FS2Crew.Those guys usually go for the big fish... EA Games, Activision, Eaglesoft :(

Ha Ha, yea, EA, Activision, Eaglesoft...Very funny :( :(

What I want to know is what is our world going to be like when these people of no conscience (I assume most are kids) grow up and are running things.

Without taking this to a political level we are there already aren't we? Whos running your everyday life and that of your family? Corruption, greed, immoral behaviour is everywhere. It is not just computer software that is affected!Graham

Without taking this to a political level we are there already aren't we? Whos running your everyday life and that of your family? Corruption, greed, immoral behaviour is everywhere. It is not just computer software that is affected!Graham

As I mentioned-it is only going to get worse.

As I mentioned-it is only going to get worse.

Please be wrong for a change Geof. Just this one time, please be wrong.

I have a strong suspicion that most pirates do it to prove they can and to get bragging rights. If, suddenly, piracy became impossible through some technical innovation, I strongly doubt that developers would see any appreciable sales increase.The pirates would merely move on to other targets or pastimes to show their prowess. It's simply technological graffiti.Perhaps the reason for diminished addon sales, is that the FS addon market may be closer to saturation than we realize.How many computer users still run Win XP with no plans to upgrade?Over the years I have purchased (CD only) one add-on aircraft of each type. I haven't felt any great desire to acquire anything more for the past 18 months. Still learning about and enjoying what I have!Alex Reid