Hi,It truly amazes me how selfish people can be. Those that only use FSX want all FS9 production stopped because it interfers with the "me-me-me, I want it now attitude" and whine about the additional delay for an FSX product. Then you have FS9 users that continue to whine to developers to maintain production even after a developer has stated numerous times that FS9 production will no longer continue.Looking at both sides, I believe FSX only users are the more selfish of the two groups. At least FS9 users have not asked to stop FSX development in favor of FS9, where-as FSX users have asked time and time again to stop FS9 development because I don't want to wait for an addon due to FS9 development, again the "me-me-me, I want it now attitude".Let The Bashing Begin

I know I will get bashed for saying this as well but I tend to agree. Even users saying they try not to purchase from developers who still developed for FS9 and FSX because it interferes with their FSX development. So some FSX users would rather see a developer who still develops for FS9 go out of business than have the option of having them develop for both sims. G-d forbid something is released for FS9 first and you get an equal level of complaining by the FSXers as you do from the FS9ers who can't get something developed for FS9... I know everyone keeps pointing the fingers back at the FS9 users but a certain level of responsibility for this divide certainly lies on some of the FSX users shoulders as well...It keeps coming back to the one sour apple ruining the bunch. though. as is evidenced by SO MANY logical sensible level headed responses in this thread and the one in the FS9 forums... I really believe the majority here are good but the bad can ruin it for everyone... (Go ahead, have at it and bash away but I have called out FS9 users out numerous times in this thread, I am trying to remain unbiased and just call it from an outsiders perspective and some FSX users certainly do not help the situation but simply add more fuel to the flames...)

The only reason we fly is for fun, and it would be ridiculous for two guys to argue over who is having more fun. :( "I'm flying FS9 custom heavies over NY City and landing at JFK with full AI and getting great FPS. I'm having lots of fun. You can't do that n FSX, so pffft!" :( "Oh yeah?, Well I'm flying FSX and puddle hopping in the new Orbx PNW and the graphics are stunning. And I'm having more fun than you, You can't do that in FS9, so pffft!"As long as you're having fun, who cares what you fly. Fly a paper airplane if it makes you happy :(

The only reason we fly is for fun, and it would be ridiculous for two guys to argue over who is having more fun. :( "I'm flying FS9 custom heavies over NY City and landing at JFK with full AI and getting great FPS. I'm having lots of fun. You can't do that n FSX, so pffft!" :( "Oh yeah?, Well I'm flying FSX and puddle hopping in the new Orbx PNW and the graphics are stunning. And I'm having more fun than you, You can't do that in FS9, so pffft!"As long as you're having fun, who cares what you fly. Fly a paper airplane if it makes you happy :(

Love it!!! +1!!!

Love it!!! +1!!!

So I do want to summarize some things here and put them in a little perspective:In both threads you hear a lot of live and let live (which I love)You hear a lot of logical sensible constructive feedback (which I love) You hear a lot of passion and love for this hobby (which I love)You hear a lot of respect for others opinions and preferences (which I love)But here is where things take a turn...In the FS9 thread You hear a lot of "I just prefer it, or it suits my flying style or my add-ons are available in FS9 but not FSX (which I understand)You hear some performance criticisms (which I tend to think are non-issues with the right HW/Config)and you hear some people who just can't afford to upgrade (which I understand)In the FSX thread:FS9 users are called whiners (unacceptable, we need to address this as a community)FS9 users are called noise (unacceptable, we need to address this as a community)FS9 users are called interference (unacceptable, we need to address this as a community)My favorite, FS9 users are called Poor (unacceptable, we need to address this as a community)You hear comments about not supporting developers who still develop for FS9 as well as FSX! (which is mindblowing)So I agree with Geofa, this is not a fair overall representation but it is interesting to take a step back and really look at this from the outside for a little bit if I was just reading this off the street....Now, to be fair, this does not take into account the past or the FS9 users who give all FS9 users a bad name with their constant and unrelenting badgering of developers for a certain release because they want it, or their lack of respect for a developer's decision once it is made or their constant criticism and close minded attitude towards ANY aspect of FSX but when we take a step back we as a community need to address this from BOTH sides if we are to ever have a mutual respect that is so critical to FS's survival in ANY form moving forward!!!All the best everyone!!! Happy and safe virtual flights!!!I really hope we can use this thread to take something positive away in our understanding of the "other side"PaulEdit: I am also posting this in the FS9 forums because those FS9 users who DO give the rest a bad name need to be addressed just as much as some of the comments made in this thread!!! Please do not misinterpret this post as bashing FSX users at all! I am calling out those on BOTH sides who are ruining it for the rest of us!!!And just to show there really is no Bias here is what I just posted over there!

Hi John, I can understand your perspective; the issue is when fellow users don't respect a developers decision once it's made. It is their business and we all need to respect that no matter how disappointed we may be. And I am not directing that at you, just saying in general myself included b/c I would have loved to have seen a PMDG 777 for FS9, it has been my dream for years but I respect Robert, Ryan and the group in their decision. I doubt anyone wants to leave money on the table but the ROI needs to be justifiable and at the end of the day the numbers do the talking...Paul

So what is all this noise about FSX vs FS9 (version wars, fan boys, bullies, victims, best, worst) once more? Is it a slow news day or what? Has it got something to do with most Europeans being grounded by a volcano, or how the entrails of a chicken line up with the stars? What? or more to the point...Why? Instead, why not endlessly talk about and get worked up about which is better, the old ATI 9700 Video Card or the latest Nvidia GTX? It would make just as much sense. The past is past, and the future is before us. As for me I want to help unlock and walk through the door in front, not lock myself behind the last one.This is the golden age of MSFS right now, when the long and ruinous battle between machines and FSX is winding down, which the machines have won. In fact the war already killed FSX as we once knew it, and in its place is a highly modified and evolved super simulation, custom made for the super computers needed to run it.So FS NEXT is here in the form of engineered fixes and fabulous new add-on software that would blow the mind of the most imaginative Aces planner, the best of which run at blinding speeds, maxed out to the hilt. To conceive in 2005 of the Lotus L-39 scudding over the treetops in the ORBX PNW would have been to dream the impossible dream.The separation between the FS9 that once was, and the FSX which now is will continue to widen and grow deeper every month as the rewards of progress gain momentum. The FS past deserves due honour and respect, but not loyalty in the present, nor leadership for the future. That belongs to those out there in front making it happen. Don't you think?With respect,Stephen :(

So I do want to summarize some things here and put them in a little perspective:In both threads you hear a lot of live and let live (which I love)You hear a lot of logical sensible constructive feedback (which I love) You hear a lot of passion and love for this hobby (which I love)You hear a lot of respect for others opinions and preferences (which I love)But here is where things take a turn...In the FS9 thread You hear a lot of "I just prefer it, or it suits my flying style or my add-ons are available in FS9 but not FSX (which I understand)You hear some performance criticisms (which I tend to think are non-issues with the right HW/Config)and you hear some people who just can't afford to upgrade (which I understand)In the FSX thread:FS9 users are called whiners (unacceptable, we need to address this as a community)FS9 users are called noise (unacceptable, we need to address this as a community)FS9 users are called interference (unacceptable, we need to address this as a community)My favorite, FS9 users are called Poor (unacceptable, we need to address this as a community)You hear comments about not supporting developers who still develop for FS9 as well as FSX! (which is mindblowing)So I agree with Geofa, this is not a fair overall representation but it is interesting to take a step back and really look at this from the outside for a little bit if I was just reading this off the street....Now, to be fair, this does not take into account the past or the FS9 users who give all FS9 users a bad name with their constant and unrelenting badgering of developers for a certain release because they want it, or their lack of respect for a developer's decision once it is made or their constant criticism and close minded attitude towards ANY aspect of FSX but when we take a step back we as a community need to address this from BOTH sides if we are to ever have a mutual respect that is so critical to FS's survival in ANY form moving forward!!!All the best everyone!!! Happy and safe virtual flights!!!I really hope we can use this thread to take something positive away in our understanding of the "other side"PaulEdit: I am also posting this in the FS9 forums because those FS9 users who DO give the rest a bad name need to be addressed just as much as some of the comments made in this thread!!! Please do not misinterpret this post as bashing FSX users at all! I am calling out those on BOTH sides who are ruining it for the rest of us!!!

...and taking my mod hat off-your post does not address the years..and I mean years!-- of extreme-and I mean extreme!.. abuse fsx users took in this forum for finding something redeeming in fsx and merely trying to enjoy and use it.

...and taking my mod hat off-your post does not address the years..and I mean years!-- of extreme-and I mean extreme!.. abuse fsx users took in this forum for finding something redeeming in fsx and merely trying to enjoy and use it.

I tried to, I really did, I apologize if it was not a strong enough assertion but I really do understand...

Now, to be fair, this does not take into account the past or the FS9 users who give all FS9 users a bad name with their constant and unrelenting badgering of developers for a certain release because they want it, or their lack of respect for a developer's decision once it is made or their constant criticism and close minded attitude towards ANY aspect of FSX but when we take a step back we as a community need to address this from BOTH sides if we are to ever have a mutual respect that is so critical to FS's survival in ANY form moving forward!!!

I am not trying to downplay the past at all or dismiss it but it also does not justify treating FS9 users poorly or disrespecting them now, two wrongs don't make a right so take the high road... Also you are completely dismissing the reciprocal of that Geofa; do not forget the reciprocal behavior of some early FSX adopters who did nothing but belittle FS9 users... It has always gone both waysBut I DO NOT DISAGREE with your assertions FS9 users abused FSX users in the past and I do not condone it or accept it, but it does not justify or warrant the behavior seen in this thread and with your mod hat on you should understand that. Any animosity and demeaning of other users in these forums is just wrong! My whole post was about both sides taking responsibility for the present.So while I understand a lot of the negative disposition to FS9 and its users comes from their prior bashing of FSX (the whole post title) you seem to be using it as a justification for some FSX users behavior towards FS9 users (even in this thread) and I personally think that is wrong... As a mod I would hope ANY of this behavior is being rooted out or it will never end...

I tried to, I really did, I apologize if it was not a strong enough assertion but I really do understand... I am not trying to downplay that all or dismiss it but it also does not justify treating FS9 users poorly or disrespecting them now, two wrongs don't make a right so take the high road... But I DO NOT DISAGREE with your assertions FS9 users abused FSX users in the past and I do not condone it or accept it, but it does not justify or warrant the behavior seen in this thread and with your mod hat on you should understand that. Any animosity and demeaning of other users in these forums is just wrong!

I agree. But it is understandable with human nature that now the tables have turned it goes the other way.I didn't like it 4 years ago and I don't like it now.So I vote we just stop it! :(

I didn't like it 4 years ago and I don't like it now.So I vote we just stop it! :(

Can we start a Poll for that Vote? I am +1 for stopping it once and for all!!!Thanks Geofa,-Paul

I agree. But it is understandable with human nature that now the tables have turned it goes the other way.I didn't like it 4 years ago and I don't like it now.So I vote we just stop it! :(

Yea, but come on you know the saying "if you can't stand the heat then stay out of the kitchen"The FS9'ers got in the kitchen and turned everything up high and now they are moaning that is to hot in there.Do me a favor.Only joking by the way. :(

So this is a serious question that really irks me and I am intentionally posting it in the FSX forum as you are the users I want to hear from first hand...Why is it that every time a conversation about FS9 comes up a lot (and I am not saying all or making generalizations here) but a lot of FSX users jump in and bash FS9 like it is some inferior good for nothing sim and everyone associated it with it is poor or good for nothing just like the sim? Do FSX simmers forget that the engine FSX is built around is FS9? Do users forget all the YEARS of enjoyment FS9 brought us? Do simmers realize that had it not been for FS9 there would probably be no FSX? Do FSX users forget the level of realism AC like the PMDG 737/747/MD11 the RFP 747-200 and SO many others brought us? It reminds me of the Harley Davidson rider who thumbs his nose at a guy riding any other bike. It is sad and disheartening to see the blatant superiority complex SOME FSX users feel over their FS9 counterparts.AND BY NO MEANS am I dismissing FS9 users from this equation at all. For the most part a lot of FS9 users (myself included at times) have not helped our cause by some of the FSX criticisms by FS9 users. No one is without blame here.But and this is a big BUT, why is their such a negative disposition to FS9? What did it ever do wrong? Was it so worthless for all those years that you weren't really enjoying it? Or does a lot of this come from FSX users who never even simmed with FS9 and do not appreciate how much it has brought to our hobby and how critical it was for the development of FSX? And to the bigger point, why is anyone who still chooses to use FS9 deemed to be immediately inferior or from a lower economic standing than an FSX user? Trust me, people don't want to start comparing W-2's here but I am just so disheartened by the constant insulting of FS9 users and FS9 in itself I wanted to try and understand where it comes from and what if anything can be done to remedy this situation and allow us to just share our love of FS regardless of our choice of sim... And for all the FS9 users myself included that does mean coming to terms that the development hayday of FS9 has long past and if you are going to stay with it you should for the most part be happy with what we have and NOT expect developers to churn out FS9 releases the same way they did in the past. We do not always do ourselves favors by assuming every release is going to be FS9 compatible although we are CERTAINLY grateful when it is!!! There is a certain level of reality that has to be faced if choosing to remain with FS9. So I do not hold FS9 users in a white light with a halo around their head either, I see both sides but again, I do not understand the animosity, the lack of appreciation for FS9 and what it is and was; and the insults strewn at FS9 and its users...That is my .02 for the day, As Mr. Rogers once said, would you be mine, could you be mine, won't you be my neighbor...I think it is time we put this conversation on the table once and for all and we should all address the 800 pound gorilla in the room and possibly by talking through some of this we can come to a middle ground with a respect and appreciation for all sims and all simmers.Sincerely,Paul Solk

-------------------------------------------------------Hi Paul,Not worthless at all...absolutely not, and your points all taken. I use it for heavy iron all the time. I even added a couple of new for-FS9-only products. But..having said that, present-day scenery developers are really bringing out the TRUE differences in what both FS9 and FSX can render. FSX before PNW and ENBSeries was still cartoonie, and before PNW in North America, was just a 'tad' better than FS9. But that has all changed. I have to tell you, and of course from a personal-viewpoint angle, With FSX/PNW/Paul's Caribbean scenery,ENBSeries (custom init file) my mind relaxes the 'make this real, please' mental set...and I just fly over REAL WORLD scenery. It is LEAPS now beyond what venerable FS9 can render. Absolute LEAPS!!!! Therefore, I have finally retired FS9 to great heavy op's work, and go to FSX (hand's down) for total real-world immersion. Paul, it was the SCENRY/ATMOSPHERICS DEVELOPERS that made FSX to where it is today. It was forum members that tweaked the .cfg files on most user's systems to give the FSX performance that makes all the great Dev offerings viable, I MEAN viable!FS9 is/was great in its time. The reality of the date; April/2010, is where FSX can honestly when viewed side-by-side...retire FS9 for techno and visual rendering advancement, with honor.My view. Others will vary.Mitch

Can we start a Poll for that Vote? I am +1 for stopping it once and for all!!!Thanks Geofa,-Paul

Hang on. I'm still struggling with that Star Trek thing.......!! :( :( Ian

Hang on. I'm still struggling with that Star Trek thing.......!! :( :( Ian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv_MR4pzQXI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv_MR4pzQXI

Thank you. Now I can get on with my life.... :( Ian

Good grief, I had forgotten just how corny that series was. Both FS9 and FSX graphics have now gone light years ahead of where man had never gone before!Stephen